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Regional · European Union · continued

EMA product information as a primary source — does this still hold? posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

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j.steinerTL215 Nov 2024 · edited#31

EMA product information is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers.

3 likes 20mo
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a.reyesTL4 Admin15 Nov 2024#32

I would call the community position on EMA product information likely rather than established, and I would be comfortable defending that hedge.

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m.brobergTL215 Nov 2024#33

The arithmetic in post #30 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

France: ANSM implements EU framework. Reimbursement has been narrower for weight management. Prescribing restrictions were applied during shortages, directing available product toward diabetes indications.

Two people can read the same figure differently here and both be reasonable.

32 likes 20mo
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s.leclercTL4 Moderator15 Nov 2024#34
s.grigorescu, post #2: Taking the opening post at face value and following it one step further. Regional stock held inside the union removes a customs question entirely for intra-union movement, which is a practical difference rather than a legal opinion. Go to post

Answering the question post #32 raises rather than the one it answers.

Summarising the EMA product information thread so far, since it is long and the answer is buried: the first reply has the method, the fourth has the correction to it, and the rest is people agreeing at length.

0 likes in reply to #2 20mo
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t.ndiayeTL215 Nov 2024#35

Confirming post #34 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Practical answer on EMA product information, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

6 likes 20mo
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a.friskTL215 Nov 2024#36
mira.patel, post #18: I keep a log for EMA product information specifically because my memory of it turned out to be systematically wrong in one direction. Six weeks of notes cost nothing and settled it. Go to post

Shortage notifications are published both centrally and nationally and the two do not always agree, usually because they are describing different things.

16 likes in reply to #18 20mo
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p.mbekiTL215 Nov 2024#37

That is the distinction I keep failing to hold on to. Written down now.

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n.moreauTL215 Nov 2024#38

Post #36 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Language versions of the product information are all official and occasionally differ in emphasis. Where a detail matters, reading two is not paranoid.

On balance I think that is right, and I would not bet much on it.

1 like 20mo
TI
trough_indexTL3Regular15 Nov 2024#39

A device-and-compound combination has one authorisation and two supply chains, and the device is more often the limiting one.

I would rather be precise about what I do not know than vague about what I do.

0 likes 20mo
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f.novakTL215 Nov 2024 · edited#40
a.reyes, post #32: I would call the community position on EMA product information likely rather than established, and I would be comfortable defending that hedge. Go to post

Coming back to post #36, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Two people in this thread mean different things by EMA product information and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it.

4 likes in reply to #32 20mo
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b.vestergaardTL216 Nov 2024#41
np_gilmore, post #20: On post #18 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Worth separating EMA product information as a question about the compound from EMA product information as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here. Go to post

I would be cautious about generalising from the EMA product information example above. It is a good example. It is one example.

0 likes in reply to #20 20mo
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BGiordanoTL2Member16 Nov 2024#42

Reimbursement is decided nationally and varies substantially between member states for the same authorised product.

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a.lindholmTL216 Nov 2024#43

A definition problem is doing most of the work in this EMA product information discussion. Once the term is pinned down I suspect the disagreement mostly goes away and what is left is small.

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c.delgadoTL216 Nov 2024#44
j.steiner, post #31: EMA product information is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers. Go to post

Taking post #41 at face value and following it one step further.

What I would check first on EMA product information is whether the thing being measured moved or whether the way of measuring it moved. Those look identical in a graph.

7 likes in reply to #31 20mo
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k.radichTL216 Nov 2024 · edited#45
g.rasmussen, post #17: For anyone finding this later: the short answer on EMA product information is that it depends on one thing, and the rest of the thread is people identifying which thing. Go to post

Answering the question post #41 raises rather than the one it answers.

France: ANSM implements EU framework. Reimbursement has been narrower for weight management. Prescribing restrictions were applied during shortages, directing available product toward diabetes indications.

Written from notes rather than memory, which is why the numbers are specific.

0 likes in reply to #17 20mo
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h.mbekiTL216 Nov 2024#46

That is a cleaner way of putting what I was circling around.

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a.reyesTL4 Admin16 Nov 2024#47

The number people quote for EMA product information is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own.

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b.oseiTL216 Nov 2024#48

EMA product information was covered in the wiki last year and the page has a review date on it, which is a better starting point than my memory of a thread.

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r.novakTL216 Nov 2024#49

Post #45 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Pharmacy practice: pharmacies in different EU countries differ in conservatism about irregular prescriptions. Some will decline a prescription they consider irregular; others will not. Local pharmacy culture matters.

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o.abrahamsenTL3Regular16 Nov 2024#50

Adding the measurement that post #49 says would settle it.

The documentation on EMA product information is better than this thread and I say that as someone who has posted in the thread.

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m.yildizTL216 Nov 2024#51
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k.farrugiaTL3Regular16 Nov 2024#52

Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is.

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a.amankwahTL216 Nov 2024#53
g.rasmussen, post #17: For anyone finding this later: the short answer on EMA product information is that it depends on one thing, and the rest of the thread is people identifying which thing. Go to post

Germany: BfArM implements EU framework. Statutory insurance (the majority) excludes "lifestyle medicines" including weight management. Private prescription is common. Private insurance sometimes covers it.

Posted with less confidence than the sentence structure implies.

20 likes in reply to #17 20mo
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lyophil_marginTL3Regular16 Nov 2024#54
baseline_drift, post #30: Correcting a stale claim here is more valuable than adding a new one, because the stale claims are what people find first. One more caveat and then I will stop qualifying: the sample selected itself. Go to post

EMA is the regulator with national implementation. Licensed incretin analogues are prescription-only across the EU, with some variation in specific approvals by member state.

0 likes in reply to #30 20mo
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j.marchettiTL216 Nov 2024#55
b.osei, post #48: EMA product information was covered in the wiki last year and the page has a review date on it, which is a better starting point than my memory of a thread. Go to post

Post #53 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Correcting a stale claim here is more valuable than adding a new one, because the stale claims are what people find first.

The uncertainty is in the assumption, not in the calculation.

0 likes in reply to #48 20mo
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r.marsdenTL3Regular16 Nov 2024 · edited#56
sleep_log, post #6: This follows post #3 rather than contradicting it. Date every claim. Positions in this subcategory have moved repeatedly and the archive keeps posts permanently. Go to post

Small methodological point on EMA product information: repeating a measurement is cheap and resolves most of what is being argued about here at no cost to anyone.

5 likes in reply to #6 20mo
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s.lindqvistTL216 Nov 2024#57

Reimbursement is decided nationally and varies substantially between member states for the same authorised product.

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figure_reviewTL2Member16 Nov 2024#58

I would keep EMA product information and the decision it usually gets used for separate in this thread. They are related and they are not the same question, and merging them is why the last one went badly.

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e.krastevTL216 Nov 2024#59

Right, and stated more narrowly than I would have dared to state it.

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MSaarinenTL3Regular16 Nov 2024#60
l.pires, post #13: Source for the EMA product information figure, since it was asked for. It is in the discussion rather than the abstract, which is why the version circulating is stronger than the paper is. Reading the surrounding paragraph is worth the two minutes. The authors are more careful than their summarisers. Go to post

Adding a null result on EMA product information. I looked, carefully, and found nothing, and null results deserve posting precisely because they never are.

2 likes in reply to #13 20mo