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Analytics · Impurities & related substances · continued

Racemisation and why it is invisible to a mass measurement posts 91–120

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

HK
h.karlsenTL213 Jun 2026#91

Taking racemisation seriously for a moment rather than deflecting: the honest position is that the community has observations and no controlled comparison, and those two things support very different sentences.

0 likes 1mo
DB
d.barrosTL213 Jun 2026#92
c.amankwah, post #20: Racemisation: I have looked for the primary source twice and failed twice. Either it does not exist or it is somewhere I do not know to look, and I would like to know which. Go to post

Noted, and thank you for writing it out rather than summarising it.

21 likes in reply to #20 1mo
MI
m.ivaturiTL213 Jun 2026#93

Post #89 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Marking my uncertainty on racemisation explicitly. I am confident about the direction, much less confident about the size, and not confident at all that it generalises past the case in the first post.

9 likes 1mo
NV
n.vogelTL213 Jun 2026#94

Taking post #93 at face value and following it one step further.

Acetate content: counter-ion content. Trifluoroacetate or acetate from the salt form of the peptide. Affects mass calculations and should be stated on a complete certificate.

Speaking for myself and not for anyone else who has posted here.

14 likes 1mo
OC
o.cousineauTL3Regular14 Jun 2026#95

My experience of racemisation contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.

5 likes 1mo
SF
s.ferreiraTL214 Jun 2026#96
p.novak, post #31: Aggregates: multiples of the monomer mass. May not elute at all under a standard reversed-phase method. A species that does not come off the column does not appear in the area percentage. Go to post

Nobody has said the unglamorous part of racemisation yet, so: most of the variation is explained by things that are boring to write about and easy to check.

0 likes in reply to #31 1mo
CN
c.niemelTL3Regular14 Jun 2026 · edited#97

Worth separating two things that post #93 runs together.

Relative response factors mean impurities are not detected in proportion to how much of them is present. A one per cent peak is not one per cent by mass unless the response factors happen to match.

Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me.

0 likes 1mo
RM
r.mwangiTL214 Jun 2026#98

Deletion sequences (incomplete coupling during synthesis): lower in mass by one residue. Chromatographically they usually elute earlier or later depending on the residue's hydrophobicity. They are the most common impurity in solid-phase synthesis.

20 likes 1mo
B
BramleyTL2Member14 Jun 2026#99

Dimer and higher-order multimers: two or more peptide molecules bonded together. They appear at double the mass and higher. They may or may not separate from the monomer on HPLC depending on the method.

Two sources, same conclusion, and I could not rule out that one copied the other.

22 likes 1mo
RC
r.chukwuTL214 Jun 2026#100

The arithmetic in post #97 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Aggregates may be a multiple of the monomer mass and may not elute at all under a standard method. What does not come off the column does not appear in the area percentage.

I would hold that lightly until someone with a larger sample weighs in.

10 likes 1mo
SO
s.okaforTL214 Jun 2026#101

Worth separating two things that post #97 runs together.

Off-target structures: if the sequence synthesis goes wrong, a completely different amino acid can be incorporated. The resulting off-target peptide is a structural isomer with the same mass but a different sequence. No chromatographic purity method detects this without a reference standard.

I would put the burden of proof on the interesting explanation, not the dull one.

1 like 1mo
RA
r.aldana_pharmdTL4Pharmacist14 Jun 2026#102

This follows post #101 rather than contradicting it.

Acetate content: counter-ion content. Trifluoroacetate or acetate from the salt form of the peptide. Affects mass calculations and should be stated on a complete certificate.

0 likes 1mo
RE
r.erdoganTL214 Jun 2026#103
l.lundgren, post #82: Racemisation has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet. Go to post

Speaking only to racemisation as I have actually seen it, rather than as it is usually described: the effect is real, it is smaller than the thread suggests, and the variance between people is larger than the effect.

25 likes in reply to #82 1mo
LG
lc_gradientTL3Analytical chemist14 Jun 2026 · edited#104
h.agyeman, post #60: Deletion sequences (incomplete coupling during synthesis): lower in mass by one residue. Chromatographically they usually elute earlier or later depending on the residue's hydrophobicity. They are the most common impurity in solid-phase synthesis. Go to post

The useful distinction on racemisation is between what was measured and what was inferred from it. Both end up in the same sentence and only one of them has error bars.

12 likes in reply to #60 1mo
KP
k.perrinTL214 Jun 2026#105

That is clearer than the version I had in my head. Thank you.

4 likes 1mo
AB
a.batistaTL214 Jun 2026#106

Picking up post #104: that is the part I would want checked first.

Related substances: compounds chemically related to the target peptide but not the target peptide itself. The standard method separates them and reports them as area percent. How related they can be before they exceed specification is a regulatory question.

I would want to see it done twice before believing it once.

0 likes 1mo
EV
e.vargaTL214 Jun 2026#107
c.niemel, post #97: Worth separating two things that post #93 runs together. Relative response factors mean impurities are not detected in proportion to how much of them is present. A one per cent peak is not one per cent by mass unless the response factors happen to match. Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me. Go to post

Disulfide formation: if a peptide contains cysteine, it can form disulfide bonds with itself or with other molecules. Under oxidising conditions multiple species appear. Reducing conditions (like DTT) convert them back.

0 likes in reply to #97 1mo
BN
bench_notesTL4 Moderator14 Jun 2026#108
bench_entry, post #74: Seconded. It reads as careful rather than confident, which is the right register. Go to post

Incomplete deprotection: mass higher by the protecting group mass. Usually markedly later eluting. A synthesis artifact from incomplete removal of protecting groups.

This is the sort of thing the wiki should carry and currently does not.

17 likes in reply to #74 1mo
IB
i.boatengTL214 Jun 2026#109

A supplier that can tell you what its principal impurity is has answered a harder question than one that can tell you its purity, and the answer is more useful.

7 likes 1mo
TD
titration_diaryTL3Regular14 Jun 2026#110

Before the thread moves on from racemisation — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred.

1 like 1mo
KV
k.vanheckeTL214 Jun 2026#111
a.aguirre, post #42: Quietly grateful for the plain phrasing. Not every thread gets that. Go to post

Adding the measurement that post #108 says would settle it.

Trifluoroacetate is a counter-ion rather than an impurity, and it appears in the mass balance rather than in the chromatogram. Conflating the two accounts for several confused threads here.

I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this.

4 likes in reply to #42 1mo
VB
v.baptistaTL214 Jun 2026 · edited#112

Post #110 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Relative response factors mean impurities are not detected in proportion to how much of them is present. A one per cent peak is not one per cent by mass unless the response factors happen to match.

The mechanism is plausible, which is not the same as established.

13 likes 1mo
BA
b.aaltoTL214 Jun 2026#113

Truncation products: fragments from incomplete synthesis or from degradation. They elute quite differently from the intact peptide because they are much smaller and have different hydrophobicity. They are usually well separated.

27 likes 1mo
KF
k.fonsecaTL214 Jun 2026#114

Practical answer on racemisation, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

0 likes 1mo
PW
PharmNotes_WhitfieldTL4Pharmacist15 Jun 2026#115
v.rautio, post #56: Post #54 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Worth stating the null on racemisation before we explain it: the observation may be nothing. That possibility deserves a sentence and usually does not get one. Go to post

Agreed on racemisation, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states.

8 likes in reply to #56 1mo
SM
s.mbekiTL215 Jun 2026#116

Answering the question post #114 raises rather than the one it answers.

Deletion sequences arise from incomplete coupling and are lower by one residue mass. Where they elute depends on the hydrophobicity of the residue that is missing, so they can appear on either side of the main peak.

19 likes 1mo
BN
bench_notesTL4 Moderator15 Jun 2026#117

Agreed on all of that, and I have nothing to add to it.

0 likes 1mo
SC
s.cabreraTL215 Jun 2026#118

Oxidation at methionine or tryptophan adds sixteen per oxygen and typically elutes earlier. In aged material it is the modification that grows.

0 likes 1mo
DH
dietitian_hollisTL3Dietitian15 Jun 2026#119
j.vogel, post #21: Oxidation at methionine and tryptophan: adds 16 per oxygen. Usually elutes earlier. Oxidation is common in storage, especially if the solution is exposed to light or if antioxidants are not present. Go to post

I would call the community position on racemisation likely rather than established, and I would be comfortable defending that hedge.

12 likes in reply to #21 1mo
EH
e.halonenTL215 Jun 2026#120
system_suitability, post #47: Racemisation sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly. Go to post

Deamidation at asparagine or glutamine adds approximately one dalton and frequently produces a close-eluting pair. It is the impurity most likely to be integrated into the main peak by accident.

26 likes in reply to #47 1mo