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Sourcing · Vendor reports

Reporting a discrepancy without making an allegation

MR
m.ramosTL220 Jul 2024#1

On the subject in the title: Reporting a discrepancy without making an allegation Working notes rather than a conclusion.

Asking about reporting a discrepancy directly, because I have read four threads on it and each answered a slightly different question.

The version I want answered is the narrow one: given the method stated below, is the result within what anyone else has seen? I am not asking what it means yet.

Method, numbers and the two assumptions I am aware of making are below. If the assumptions are wrong that is more useful to me than agreement.

60 likes 2y
VT
vial_tableTL2Member22 Jul 2024#2

On reporting a discrepancy: the maintained page in the documentation commons covers the general case with citations and a review date, which is more reliable than any reply here including this one.

0 likes 2y
AP
a.pereiraTL223 Jul 2024#3

Confirming post #2 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Do not adjust a reported figure. Post what the laboratory said and put your interpretation in a separate sentence.

3 likes 2y
FP
forest_plotTL3Evidence synthesis25 Jul 2024#4

Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating.

11 likes 2y
HB
h.bakkerTL226 Jul 2024 · edited#5
forest_plot, post #4: Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating. Go to post

My experience of reporting a discrepancy contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.

24 likes in reply to #4 2y
PE
ppm_errorTL3Analytical chemist27 Jul 2024#6
m.ramos, post #1: On the subject in the title: Reporting a discrepancy without making an allegation Working notes rather than a conclusion. Asking about reporting a discrepancy directly, because I have read four threads on it and each answered a slightly different question. The version I want answered is the narrow one: given the method stated below, is… Go to post

What I would want before treating reporting a discrepancy as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing.

0 likes in reply to #1 2y
CO
c.ostergaardTL228 Jul 2024#7

Post #6 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

The cost of a submission is worth stating. It is the main reason people do not do this and knowing the figure helps somebody else decide.

That is all I can say without guessing.

1 like 2y
MS
m.strand_rphTL3Pharmacist29 Jul 2024#8

Reporting a discrepancy is well covered in the tag pages, and the older discussions are better than the recent ones because they were argued out properly. Worth twenty minutes before adding to this one.

7 likes 2y
SK
s.kimaniTL230 Jul 2024#9

Right, and stated more narrowly than I would have dared to state it.

0 likes 2y
HS
hana.satoTL4 Moderator31 Jul 2024#10
m.strand_rph, post #8: Reporting a discrepancy is well covered in the tag pages, and the older discussions are better than the recent ones because they were argued out properly. Worth twenty minutes before adding to this one. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #8 runs together.

Dosing and purity: a vial that is 99% pure might contain 80% of its label claim if the other mass is water, counter-ion, and excipient. Purity and content are different. Both matter for different reasons.

3 likes in reply to #8 2y
MN
ma.nascimentoTL21 Aug 2024#11

Second-hand on reporting a discrepancy, so weight it accordingly — someone whose method I trust told me this and I have not verified it myself.

9 likes 2y
CP
citation_peakTL3Regular2 Aug 2024#12

Offering a way to settle reporting a discrepancy rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision.

2 likes 2y
SD
s.demirTL23 Aug 2024#13
h.bakker, post #5: My experience of reporting a discrepancy contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that. Go to post

Photograph the vial and the label before opening. It costs ten seconds and it is what turns a report into something checkable.

0 likes in reply to #5 2y
LP
l.parkinsonTL2Member4 Aug 2024#14
vial_table, post #2: On reporting a discrepancy: the maintained page in the documentation commons covers the general case with citations and a review date, which is more reliable than any reply here including this one. Go to post

Picking up post #11: that is the part I would want checked first.

Where the reporting a discrepancy discussion usually stalls is that nobody wants to say "I do not know" and everyone is willing to say "it varies". Those are the same sentence with different clothes on.

21 likes in reply to #2 2y
ZS
z.szaboTL25 Aug 2024#15

I read post #11 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Reports of ordinary results are more valuable than reports of remarkable ones, precisely because only the remarkable ones get posted elsewhere.

I have said this before in a thread nobody could find, so it is worth repeating.

14 likes 2y
ER
eire_readerTL2Regional · IE5 Aug 2024#16

Something worth flagging about reporting a discrepancy: the strongest-sounding claims in this thread are the ones with no source attached, which is the usual pattern and not a coincidence.

5 likes 2y
SI
s.ivaturiTL26 Aug 2024 · edited#17
z.szabo, post #15: I read post #11 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Reports of ordinary results are more valuable than reports of remarkable ones, precisely because only the remarkable ones get posted elsewhere. I have said this before in a thread nobody could find, so it is worth repeating. Go to post

I have three months of notes on reporting a discrepancy and the honest summary is that the trend is real and the week-to-week numbers are noise. I nearly drew the opposite conclusion from the first fortnight.

0 likes in reply to #15 2y
KR
k.redgraveTL2Member7 Aug 2024#18

The cost of a submission is worth stating. It is the main reason people do not do this and knowing the figure helps somebody else decide.

29 likes 2y
ZC
z.cardosoTL28 Aug 2024#19

Everything in post #15 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Reporting a discrepancy came up in a thread eighteen months ago and was answered well. I cannot find it, which is itself the problem, so here is the reconstruction.

20 likes 2y
UC
unit_conversionTL3Regular9 Aug 2024#20
a.pereira, post #3: Confirming post #2 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. Do not adjust a reported figure. Post what the laboratory said and put your interpretation in a separate sentence. Go to post

Narrowing post #19, because the general version has more than one answer.

Do not adjust a reported figure. Post what the laboratory said and put your interpretation in a separate sentence.

I would want to see it done twice before believing it once.

9 likes in reply to #3 2y
I
IRenaudinTL2Member10 Aug 2024#21

This follows post #20 rather than contradicting it.

The reason reporting a discrepancy keeps being re-asked is that the answer is conditional and people quote it without the condition. It is not that the answer is unknown.

1 like 2y
KO
k.ogunleyeTL210 Aug 2024#22

Taking reporting a discrepancy seriously for a moment rather than deflecting: the honest position is that the community has observations and no controlled comparison, and those two things support very different sentences.

7 likes 2y
AK
a.kwiatkowskiTL2Member11 Aug 2024#23
unit_conversion, post #20: Narrowing post #19, because the general version has more than one answer. Do not adjust a reported figure. Post what the laboratory said and put your interpretation in a separate sentence. I would want to see it done twice before believing it once. Go to post

Dosing and purity: a vial that is 99% pure might contain 80% of its label claim if the other mass is water, counter-ion, and excipient. Purity and content are different. Both matter for different reasons.

I have separated what I observed from what I concluded, which does not always happen.

17 likes in reply to #20 2y
TV
t.vargaTL212 Aug 2024 · edited#24

Coming back to post #22, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Photograph the vial and the label before opening. It costs ten seconds and it is what turns a report into something checkable.

I would treat the number as indicative rather than as a measurement.

33 likes 2y
CR
crossover_reviewTL3Regular13 Aug 2024#25

Nobody has said the unglamorous part of reporting a discrepancy yet, so: most of the variation is explained by things that are boring to write about and easy to check.

0 likes 23mo
EB
e.bakkenTL214 Aug 2024#26

Nothing to add, except that this is the answer I would give if asked.

4 likes 23mo
MM
methods_marginTL3Regular14 Aug 2024#27
e.bakken, post #26: Nothing to add, except that this is the answer I would give if asked. Go to post

Confirming post #24 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

The cost of a submission is worth stating. It is the main reason people do not do this and knowing the figure helps somebody else decide.

Reporting the observation and leaving the explanation open deliberately.

12 likes in reply to #26 23mo
SC
s.chowdhuryTL3Regular15 Aug 2024#28

I had written a reply contradicting post #27 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Answering the reporting a discrepancy question as asked, then the question I think is meant. As asked: yes, with the qualification below. As meant: it depends on how the first measurement was taken.

25 likes 23mo
EK
e.kjeldsenTL2Member16 Aug 2024#29

Selective submission and selective reporting are the two easiest ways for a result to be shaped, and blinding addresses the first while a commitment to post addresses the second.

This is the version I would want a new member to read first.

0 likes 23mo
MN
m.nwosuTL217 Aug 2024#30

Post #27 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Reading back through the reporting a discrepancy threads from last year, the same three questions come up every time and only one of them has ever been answered properly. That seems like a documentation gap rather than a knowledge gap.

1 like 23mo