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Sourcing · Logistics · continued

Cold packs, phase-change material, and what survives ten days posts 61–90

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

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g.amankwahTL21 Jul 2024#61

Coming back to post #60, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

The failure mode on cold packs is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong.

25 likes 2.1y
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outline_firstTL3Wiki editor2 Jul 2024#62

That is the distinction I keep failing to hold on to. Written down now.

12 likes 2.1y
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c.castellanosTL22 Jul 2024#63
p.lindqvist, post #21: Post #19 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. Insurance and carrier liability: most parcel carriers limit liability. Understanding the limits before choosing a carrier matters if you are shipping expensive material. Go to post

Nothing in this subcategory is legal advice, and the legal position on importing research-use-only material varies by jurisdiction and is yours to establish.

I would not lead a decision with this, but I would not ignore it either.

1 like in reply to #21 2.1y
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n.ekstromTL22 Jul 2024#64
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s.vukovicTL23 Jul 2024#65

Insurance and carrier liability: most parcel carriers limit liability. Understanding the limits before choosing a carrier matters if you are shipping expensive material.

Happy to be corrected if someone holds better data than mine.

18 likes 2.1y
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steady_stateTL3Regular3 Jul 2024#66

Confirming post #63 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

At what point is a parcel genuinely a problem: if it was despatched weeks ago and there has been no update for days at customs, it might be held or lost. Days of delay at customs without update is ordinary; weeks without movement warrants inquiry.

A guess, clearly labelled as one.

7 likes 2.1y
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n.cabreraTL23 Jul 2024#67
v.krastev, post #16: Nothing in this subcategory is legal advice, and the legal position on importing research-use-only material varies by jurisdiction and is yours to establish. I am aware this is the third time this month I have made this point. Go to post

Document outcomes rather than forecasting them. A forecast in this category reads as reassurance and is not one.

0 likes in reply to #16 2.1y
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journalclub_wrenTL3Regular3 Jul 2024#68

A methods point on cold packs rather than a substantive one: if the comparison is not like for like, the difference you are measuring is the difference in method.

0 likes 2.1y
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ar.kravchenkoTL24 Jul 2024#69

Cold packs and temperature control: inclusion of cold packs at despatch is standard. Whether they maintain temperature through transit depends on journey duration and ambient temperature. Long journeys through warm climates put product at risk.

It cost nothing to check and would have cost something not to.

0 likes 2.1y
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GSwinburneTL1Member4 Jul 2024#70
r.bakken, post #54: On post #50 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Cold packs looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour. Go to post

Agreed on cold packs, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states.

24 likes in reply to #54 2.1y
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f.amankwahTL24 Jul 2024#71

Post #70 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

What I would check first on cold packs is whether the thing being measured moved or whether the way of measuring it moved. Those look identical in a graph.

0 likes 2.1y
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hana.satoTL4 Moderator5 Jul 2024#72
footnote_entry, post #10: Document outcomes rather than forecasting them. A forecast in this category reads as reassurance and is not one. Genuinely open to being wrong about this one. Go to post

Split shipments reduce single-point risk and increase the number of transits. Which trade is right depends on what you are protecting against.

That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category.

0 likes in reply to #10 2.1y
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n.okwuosaTL25 Jul 2024 · edited#73
o.abrahamsen, post #26: I think the cold packs question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread. Go to post

Filing a mild objection to the consensus on cold packs. Mild because I might be wrong; an objection because nobody has addressed the case that does not fit.

8 likes in reply to #26 2.1y
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p.iyer_pharmdTL3Pharmacist5 Jul 2024#74

Answering the question post #72 raises rather than the one it answers.

Tracking stops updating: tracking last updated days ago usually means the package is in transit and will not update until it reaches the next scanning point. No update for weeks means it might be stuck.

19 likes 2.1y
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s.rasmussenTL26 Jul 2024#75

Confirming post #74 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Insurance and carrier liability: most parcel carriers limit liability. Understanding the limits before choosing a carrier matters if you are shipping expensive material.

0 likes 2.1y
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f.wojcikTL26 Jul 2024#76

Bookmarking this. I will come back when I have something worth adding.

2 likes 2.1y
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f.fonsecaTL26 Jul 2024#77
buffer_margin, post #20: I had written a reply contradicting post #18 and deleted it. Here is what survived. Anyone deciding whether a delay is a problem should ask what would change if they waited another week. Usually the answer is nothing. Go to post

Cold packs was covered in the wiki last year and the page has a review date on it, which is a better starting point than my memory of a thread.

12 likes in reply to #20 2.1y
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b.okonkwoTL27 Jul 2024#78

The number people quote for cold packs is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own.

26 likes 2.1y
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e.steinerTL27 Jul 2024#79

Peak periods and public holidays affect this more than any other factor and are entirely predictable in advance.

I would want a second opinion before relying on that.

20 likes 2.1y
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q.zhao_qaTL3Quality assurance7 Jul 2024#80

Post #77 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Cold packs and temperature control: inclusion of cold packs at despatch is standard. Whether they maintain temperature through transit depends on journey duration and ambient temperature. Long journeys through warm climates put product at risk.

0 likes 2.1y
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buffer_sheetTL3Regular7 Jul 2024#81
figure_review, post #38: Document outcomes rather than forecasting them. A forecast in this category reads as reassurance and is not one. Go to post

Post #77 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

On cold packs, I would rather understate and be corrected upward than overstate and be quoted. That is a house style here and it is a good one.

0 likes in reply to #38 2.1y
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b.wikstromTL28 Jul 2024#82
buffer_margin, post #20: I had written a reply contradicting post #18 and deleted it. Here is what survived. Anyone deciding whether a delay is a problem should ask what would change if they waited another week. Usually the answer is nothing. Go to post

Delivery to an address where somebody is present is worth more for cold-chain material than any packing decision available to the supplier.

32 likes in reply to #20 2.1y
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integrator_logTL3Regular8 Jul 2024#83

The version of cold packs that I was taught turned out to be a teaching simplification. Useful, and not true in the way I had assumed it was.

17 likes 2.1y
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f.lindholmTL28 Jul 2024#84

That is clearer than the version I had in my head. Thank you.

6 likes 2.1y
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e.dalgleishTL3Regular9 Jul 2024#85
j.bhattacharya, post #31: Declared contents and declared value are the two fields most likely to cause a query, and accuracy in both is the only strategy that survives. Go to post

Post #81 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Photographing the parcel on arrival before opening it takes ten seconds and is the difference between a report and a recollection.

That matches what I was told, which is not the same as knowing it.

0 likes in reply to #31 2.1y
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s.salgadoTL29 Jul 2024 · edited#86
m.rasmussen, post #12: I would be cautious about generalising from the cold packs example above. It is a good example. It is one example. Go to post

Building on post #85 rather than restating it.

One caution on cold packs: everything above assumes the underlying documentation is what it claims to be. That assumption is doing real work and is rarely stated.

24 likes in reply to #12 2.1y
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DOdendaalTL3Regular9 Jul 2024#87

Adding a small correction to the cold packs summary above rather than a disagreement with it. The substance holds; one of the figures is out by a factor that matters.

11 likes 2.1y
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ma.balogunTL210 Jul 2024#88

Anyone deciding whether a delay is a problem should ask what would change if they waited another week. Usually the answer is nothing.

Adding the caveat now so it does not have to be extracted later.

3 likes 2y
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slow_titratorTL2Regular10 Jul 2024#89

The thing about cold packs that took me longest to accept is that a plausible mechanism is not evidence of an effect. It is a reason to look, not a result.

3 likes 2y
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n.kravchenkoTL210 Jul 2024#90
r.scholten, post #41: Photographing the parcel on arrival before opening it takes ten seconds and is the difference between a report and a recollection. The general case is well covered; this is the awkward specific one. Go to post

Post #89 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Import restrictions by jurisdiction: what is legal to import for personal use varies enormously by country. Some jurisdictions are quite permissive; others are not. Checking your own country's rules before ordering is prudent.

The variance between people here is larger than the effect being discussed.

0 likes in reply to #41 2y