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Evidence · Meta-analyses · continued

Follow-up: Individual participant data versus aggregate data posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

RD
r.danquahTL29 Jan 2025#31
ar.petrov, post #2: Individual participant data versus aggregate is well covered in the tag pages, and the older discussions are better than the recent ones because they were argued out properly. Worth twenty minutes before adding to this one. Go to post

Practical note on Individual participant data versus aggregate: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow.

0 likes in reply to #2 19mo
AN
a.nwosuTL29 Jan 2025#32

Individual participant data pooling is a much stronger design than aggregate pooling and is rare because it requires cooperation rather than a search.

This is the sort of thing the wiki should carry and currently does not.

4 likes 19mo
AB
a.batistaTL29 Jan 2025#33

Narrowing post #30, because the general version has more than one answer.

When trials differ in population, duration and comparator, the pooled estimate answers a question no individual trial asked. That is worth saying before the number is quoted.

18 likes 19mo
KP
k.perrinTL29 Jan 2025#34

This is the answer, and the reason it is the answer is the more useful part.

0 likes 19mo
BN
bench_notesTL4 Moderator9 Jan 2025#35

Fixed-effects versus random-effects models: fixed-effects assumes all studies are estimating the same thing and variation is sampling error. Random-effects assumes studies are estimating effects from different distributions and allows between-study variance. Choice matters if heterogeneity is high.

A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none.

0 likes 19mo
AV
a.vukovicTL29 Jan 2025#36

Before the thread moves on from Individual participant data versus aggregate — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred.

2 likes 19mo
RA
r.aldana_pharmdTL4Pharmacist9 Jan 2025#37

Post #35 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

Reading it back, the second half matters more than the first.

12 likes 19mo
SO
s.okaforTL29 Jan 2025#38
r.danquah, post #31: Practical note on Individual participant data versus aggregate: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow. Go to post

The confident answers on Individual participant data versus aggregate and the well-sourced answers are not the same answers, which is the most useful thing I have learned reading this category.

26 likes in reply to #31 19mo
GV
g.verhoevenTL29 Jan 2025#39

Where I have landed on Individual participant data versus aggregate, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it.

4 likes 19mo
RS
r.scholtenTL2Member9 Jan 2025 · edited#40

Worth separating two things that post #36 runs together.

Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified.

Old habit: I write down the expected answer before I calculate it.

12 likes 19mo
SL
s.lindqvistTL29 Jan 2025#41

Coming back to post #37, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

On Individual participant data versus aggregate I would separate what is worth knowing from what is worth acting on. The first list is long and the second is short, and conflating them is how threads get heated.

0 likes 19mo
ST
sterile_tableTL3Regular9 Jan 2025#42

Post #41 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one.

27 likes 19mo
JM
j.marchettiTL29 Jan 2025#43
eire_reader, post #14: Fixed-effects versus random-effects models: fixed-effects assumes all studies are estimating the same thing and variation is sampling error. Random-effects assumes studies are estimating effects from different distributions and allows between-study variance. Choice matters if heterogeneity is high. Written quickly, so the reasoning may… Go to post

Funnel plots: a plot of study effect size versus sample size that helps detect publication bias. If small studies are missing on the negative side, the funnel is asymmetrical.

13 likes in reply to #14 19mo
FR
figure_reviewTL2Member9 Jan 2025 · edited#44
r.villalobos, post #5: I had written a reply contradicting post #3 and deleted it. Here is what survived. Sensitivity analysis: the authors re-run the meta-analysis excluding studies one at a time, or by quality, to see whether the pooled estimate changes. Robust results stay similar even when individual studies are excluded. I would be interested in a… Go to post

Reporting rather than recommending, on Individual participant data versus aggregate. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer.

4 likes in reply to #5 19mo
AN
a.nybergTL29 Jan 2025#45

I had written a reply contradicting post #41 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Pooled estimates and heterogeneity: when trials differ in population, duration, or comparator, a pooled estimate answers a question that no individual trial asked. High heterogeneity means effects genuinely differ across studies. The pooled number is an average of things that should not have been averaged.

0 likes 19mo
QL
quiet_lurkerTL2Regular9 Jan 2025#46

Summarising the Individual participant data versus aggregate thread so far, since it is long and the answer is buried: the first reply has the method, the fourth has the correction to it, and the rest is people agreeing at length.

0 likes 19mo
SR
sa.rasmussenTL29 Jan 2025#47
q.zhao_qa, post #20: When trials differ in population, duration and comparator, the pooled estimate answers a question no individual trial asked. That is worth saying before the number is quoted. If this contradicts something upthread, the upthread version may well be the better one. Go to post

The most useful reply I ever got about Individual participant data versus aggregate was a request to state my units. It sounds like pedantry and it has saved me twice.

19 likes in reply to #20 19mo
NH
new_here_2026TL1Member9 Jan 2025#48

Sensitivity analysis: the authors re-run the meta-analysis excluding studies one at a time, or by quality, to see whether the pooled estimate changes. Robust results stay similar even when individual studies are excluded.

That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct.

8 likes 19mo
AI
an.ibarraTL29 Jan 2025#49
a.batista, post #33: Narrowing post #30, because the general version has more than one answer. When trials differ in population, duration and comparator, the pooled estimate answers a question no individual trial asked. That is worth saying before the number is quoted. Go to post

That is consistent with mine, for whatever one more account is worth.

2 likes in reply to #33 19mo
FN
formulary_notesTL3Regular10 Jan 2025#50

Funnel plots: a plot of study effect size versus sample size that helps detect publication bias. If small studies are missing on the negative side, the funnel is asymmetrical.

I checked the source rather than the summary, and they differ.

0 likes 19mo
OV
o.vukovicTL210 Jan 2025#51

Confirming post #48 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

10 likes 19mo
VS
v.szaboTL3Analytical chemist10 Jan 2025#52
k.redgrave, post #12: Coming back to post #10, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. The documentation on Individual participant data versus aggregate is better than this thread and I say that as someone who has posted in the thread. Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #50 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Whatever the answer on Individual participant data versus aggregate turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction.

22 likes in reply to #12 19mo
KL
k.laurentTL210 Jan 2025#53
SK
s.karlsen_rphTL3Pharmacist10 Jan 2025#54

Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified.

One more caveat and then I will stop qualifying: the sample selected itself.

1 like 19mo
MN
m.nascimentoTL210 Jan 2025 · edited#55
an.ibarra, post #49: That is consistent with mine, for whatever one more account is worth. Go to post

I have been on both sides of the Individual participant data versus aggregate argument in this category within eighteen months, which should tell you how strong the evidence for either side is.

15 likes in reply to #49 19mo
CL
coldchain_liuTL3Regular10 Jan 2025#56
m.duarte, post #7: Marking my uncertainty on Individual participant data versus aggregate explicitly. I am confident about the direction, much less confident about the size, and not confident at all that it generalises past the case in the first post. Go to post

Where I part company with post #54, and it is a narrow parting.

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

30 likes in reply to #7 19mo
VK
v.kirchnerTL210 Jan 2025#57

Adding the measurement that post #56 says would settle it.

When a meta-analysis is unhelpful: if the included studies are heterogeneous in population, intervention, or outcome, pooling them produces a number that represents nothing in particular. Reading the individual studies is more useful than reading the pooled estimate.

0 likes 19mo
AF
a.finnegan_rdTL2Dietitian10 Jan 2025#58

Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating.

3 likes 19mo
AW
a.weissTL210 Jan 2025#59

Fixed-effects versus random-effects models: fixed-effects assumes all studies are estimating the same thing and variation is sampling error. Random-effects assumes studies are estimating effects from different distributions and allows between-study variance. Choice matters if heterogeneity is high.

Stating my assumptions rather than smuggling them in.

21 likes 19mo
KR
k.roosTL210 Jan 2025#60

Careful with the language on Individual participant data versus aggregate. "Not detected" and "not present" are different findings and the first is a statement about the method.

0 likes 19mo