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Evidence · Meta-analyses · continued

Follow-up: Individual participant data versus aggregate data posts 91–112

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

CI
c.inglethorpeTL3Regular11 Jan 2025#91
n.norgaard, post #8: Funnel plots: a plot of study effect size versus sample size that helps detect publication bias. If small studies are missing on the negative side, the funnel is asymmetrical. Go to post

When trials differ in population, duration and comparator, the pooled estimate answers a question no individual trial asked. That is worth saying before the number is quoted.

The part I am sure of is shorter than the part I have written.

0 likes in reply to #8 19mo
LD
l.dialloTL211 Jan 2025#92
y.ibarra, post #28: Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random. It is worth stating the boring hypothesis before the interesting one. Go to post

Sensitivity analysis: the authors re-run the meta-analysis excluding studies one at a time, or by quality, to see whether the pooled estimate changes. Robust results stay similar even when individual studies are excluded.

I have kept the units in throughout, for the obvious reason.

3 likes in reply to #28 19mo
C
CSagredoTL3Regular11 Jan 2025#93

Confirming post #92 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

The claim about Individual participant data versus aggregate upthread is stronger than its source supports. I have read the source. The source says "associated with" and the post says "causes".

11 likes 19mo
HB
h.bhattacharyaTL211 Jan 2025#94

I had written a reply contradicting post #90 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

My understanding of Individual participant data versus aggregate is a few years old and may have been superseded. If it has been, I would genuinely like to know rather than keep repeating it.

23 likes 19mo
OA
o.abrahamsenTL3Regular11 Jan 2025#95

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

Filing this under things that are true until someone shows me otherwise.

0 likes 19mo
RN
r.novakTL211 Jan 2025#96
r.scholten, post #40: Worth separating two things that post #36 runs together. Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified. Old habit: I write down the expected answer before I calculate it. Go to post

On post #94 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Adding what did not work for me on Individual participant data versus aggregate, since the failures never get written up and they are half the useful information.

1 like in reply to #40 19mo
EK
e.kjeldsenTL2Member11 Jan 2025#97

Post #96 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Individual participant data versus aggregate has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet.

6 likes 19mo
MN
m.nwosuTL211 Jan 2025 · edited#98

Individual participant data pooling is a much stronger design than aggregate pooling and is rare because it requires cooperation rather than a search.

17 likes 19mo
HM
h.mbekiTL211 Jan 2025#99
p.mbeki, post #86: Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random. Take it as a starting point and not as a specification. Go to post

This follows post #96 rather than contradicting it.

I have three months of notes on Individual participant data versus aggregate and the honest summary is that the trend is real and the week-to-week numbers are noise. I nearly drew the opposite conclusion from the first fortnight.

3 likes in reply to #86 18mo
KR
k.radichTL211 Jan 2025#100

Worth separating two things that post #98 runs together.

Something worth flagging about Individual participant data versus aggregate: the strongest-sounding claims in this thread are the ones with no source attached, which is the usual pattern and not a coincidence.

10 likes 18mo
CB
c.boatengTL211 Jan 2025 · edited#101

Pooled estimates and heterogeneity: when trials differ in population, duration, or comparator, a pooled estimate answers a question that no individual trial asked. High heterogeneity means effects genuinely differ across studies. The pooled number is an average of things that should not have been averaged.

Correct me on the arithmetic if it is wrong; I would rather know.

0 likes 18mo
RA
r.aldana_pharmdTL4Pharmacist12 Jan 2025#102

Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half.

1 like 18mo
AR
ambient_reviewTL3Regular12 Jan 2025#103

Picking up post #101: that is the part I would want checked first.

An honest declaration on Individual participant data versus aggregate: I have a prior here and it is strong enough that you should weight what I say downward. Stating it rather than hiding it.

11 likes 18mo
MP
mira.patelTL4 Admin12 Jan 2025#104
k.perrin, post #34: This is the answer, and the reason it is the answer is the more useful part. Go to post

Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified.

I would call that likely rather than established.

25 likes in reply to #34 18mo
NS
no.silvaTL212 Jan 2025#105

What I would tell a new member reading about Individual participant data versus aggregate for the first time: the confident posts are not the reliable ones, and the reliable ones are longer.

0 likes 18mo
NG
np_gilmoreTL3Nurse practitioner12 Jan 2025#106

Coming back to post #104, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Individual participant data versus aggregate would be much easier to settle if anyone reported the denominator. Almost nobody reports the denominator.

0 likes 18mo
RZ
r.zielinskiTL212 Jan 2025#107
o.lindgren, post #23: Post #19 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified. Go to post

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

The claim is narrower than it sounds, and deliberately so.

7 likes in reply to #23 18mo
PP
peak_purityTL3Analytical chemist12 Jan 2025#108
sa.rasmussen, post #47: The most useful reply I ever got about Individual participant data versus aggregate was a request to state my units. It sounds like pedantry and it has saved me twice. Go to post

Distinguishing three things in the Individual participant data versus aggregate discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both.

18 likes in reply to #47 18mo
L
LeitermanTL3Regular12 Jan 2025#109
h.bhattacharya, post #94: I had written a reply contradicting post #90 and deleted it. Here is what survived. My understanding of Individual participant data versus aggregate is a few years old and may have been superseded. If it has been, I would genuinely like to know rather than keep repeating it. Go to post

Building on post #106 rather than restating it.

I think the Individual participant data versus aggregate question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

26 likes in reply to #94 18mo
CB
c.balogunTL212 Jan 2025#110

Post #108 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified.

Not a strong opinion, just a consistent one.

0 likes 18mo
ZS
z.szaboTL212 Jan 2025 · edited#111
a.weiss, post #59: Fixed-effects versus random-effects models: fixed-effects assumes all studies are estimating the same thing and variation is sampling error. Random-effects assumes studies are estimating effects from different distributions and allows between-study variance. Choice matters if heterogeneity is high. Stating my assumptions rather than… Go to post

I read post #107 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

An observation about Individual participant data versus aggregate that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

32 likes in reply to #59 18mo
ER
eire_readerTL2Regional · IE12 Jan 2025#112
k.perrin, post #34: This is the answer, and the reason it is the answer is the more useful part. Go to post

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

16 likes in reply to #34 18mo

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