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Analytics · Method validation · continued

Repeatability versus intermediate precision posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

TI
trough_indexTL3Regular21 Jun 2025#31

Reporting a result to more decimal places than the method's precision supports is a small dishonesty that appears everywhere. A method with a two per cent relative standard deviation does not support a figure quoted to a hundredth.

I would treat the number as indicative rather than as a measurement.

3 likes 13mo
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f.novakTL221 Jun 2025#32
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KTurkingtonTL3Regular21 Jun 2025#33

An observation about repeatability versus intermediate precision that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

30 likes 13mo
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s.bergstromTL221 Jun 2025#34
id.almeida, post #21: Precision has two levels worth distinguishing: repeatability within a run and intermediate precision across days, analysts and instruments. The second is where most methods lose the numbers people quote. I would put the burden of proof on the interesting explanation, not the dull one. Go to post

Where a pharmacopoeial monograph exists, a method that follows it inherits a great deal of assurance. Almost nothing discussed here has one.

0 likes in reply to #21 13mo
TN
t.ndiayeTL222 Jun 2025#35

I came in to disagree and I am leaving without a disagreement.

1 like 13mo
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a.friskTL222 Jun 2025#36

Where I part company with post #33, and it is a narrow parting.

Two sentences on repeatability versus intermediate precision and then I will stop, because the rest is speculation and the thread is better without mine.

What is documented is narrow. What is inferred from it is broad. The gap between them is where every argument here lives.

6 likes 13mo
PM
p.mbekiTL222 Jun 2025#37
e.mbeki, post #19: Practical note on repeatability versus intermediate precision: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow. Go to post

Practical experience of repeatability versus intermediate precision, offered as one case with the conditions stated, not as a general finding. Conditions first, because they are what make it interpretable.

22 likes in reply to #19 13mo
NM
n.moreauTL222 Jun 2025#38
bias_variance, post #28: I had read the opposite somewhere and cannot now find where, which tells me something. Go to post

The limit of quantitation determines what the impurity table can honestly contain. Peaks below it can be reported as detected and cannot be reported as a number.

Reporting the observation and leaving the explanation open deliberately.

0 likes in reply to #28 13mo
TS
t.steenkampTL2Member22 Jun 2025 · edited#39

Building on post #38 rather than restating it.

A definition problem is doing most of the work in this repeatability versus intermediate precision discussion. Once the term is pinned down I suspect the disagreement mostly goes away and what is left is small.

9 likes 13mo
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ak.kravchenkoTL222 Jun 2025#40

The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it.

21 likes 13mo
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p.novotnyTL2Regular22 Jun 2025#41

What I would tell a new member reading about repeatability versus intermediate precision for the first time: the confident posts are not the reliable ones, and the reliable ones are longer.

1 like 13mo
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z.cardosoTL223 Jun 2025#42

An independent laboratory's method being different from the supplier's is not a discrepancy. It becomes one only when the results differ by more than both methods' demonstrated precision.

0 likes 13mo
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eire_readerTL2Regional · IE23 Jun 2025#43
d.oyelaran, post #24: The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it. Go to post

Adding a null result on repeatability versus intermediate precision. I looked, carefully, and found nothing, and null results deserve posting precisely because they never are.

23 likes in reply to #24 13mo
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f.haddadTL223 Jun 2025#44

This is the sort of exchange that makes the archive worth searching.

10 likes 13mo
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q.zhao_qaTL323 Jun 2025#45
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e.steinerTL223 Jun 2025#46
l.sarkissian, post #1: Repeatability versus intermediate precision — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Trying to establish the boundary conditions on repeatability versus intermediate precision. The general claim is fine; I want to know where it stops holding, because that is where I am operating. Three edge cases below, in… Go to post

Trying to state the repeatability versus intermediate precision position in a way that someone who disagrees would recognise as fair, because I do not think the version in this thread passes that test.

0 likes in reply to #1 13mo
UC
unit_conversionTL3Regular23 Jun 2025#47

On post #46 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Distinguishing three things in the repeatability versus intermediate precision discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both.

31 likes 13mo
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i.lehtinenTL223 Jun 2025#48

Picking up post #46: that is the part I would want checked first.

The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it.

Where I would look next, rather than where I would stop.

16 likes 13mo
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blank_injectionTL2Analytical chemist24 Jun 2025#49

Answering the question post #46 raises rather than the one it answers.

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about repeatability versus intermediate precision than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

6 likes 13mo
HI
h.iyerTL224 Jun 2025#50

The arithmetic in post #49 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

I changed my mind about repeatability versus intermediate precision after someone here asked me for the source and I could not produce one. That is worth saying out loud because it is the ordinary way it happens.

1 like 13mo
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l.oseiTL224 Jun 2025#51

The limit of quantitation determines what the impurity table can honestly contain. Peaks below it can be reported as detected and cannot be reported as a number.

4 likes 13mo
AA
a.asanteTL224 Jun 2025#52

System suitability: injections run at the start of a batch to establish that the instrument and column are performing. Acceptance criteria typically include replicate precision (RSD ≤2%), peak tailing (0.8–1.5), theoretical plates (>2000), and resolution (>1.5).

That is my reading. Someone else read the same page differently and was reasonable.

11 likes 13mo
MS
m.stephanopoulosTL3Regular24 Jun 2025#53
z.cardoso, post #42: An independent laboratory's method being different from the supplier's is not a discrepancy. It becomes one only when the results differ by more than both methods' demonstrated precision. Go to post

Picking up post #52: that is the part I would want checked first.

I would be cautious about generalising from the repeatability versus intermediate precision example above. It is a good example. It is one example.

25 likes in reply to #42 13mo
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z.iyerTL224 Jun 2025#54

On post #50 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

What I would check first on repeatability versus intermediate precision is whether the thing being measured moved or whether the way of measuring it moved. Those look identical in a graph.

0 likes 13mo
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b.fonsecaTL224 Jun 2025 · edited#55

Where a pharmacopoeial monograph exists, a method that follows it inherits a great deal of assurance. Almost nothing discussed here has one.

7 likes 13mo
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a.adebayoTL224 Jun 2025#56
id.almeida, post #21: Precision has two levels worth distinguishing: repeatability within a run and intermediate precision across days, analysts and instruments. The second is where most methods lose the numbers people quote. I would put the burden of proof on the interesting explanation, not the dull one. Go to post

Helpful, and short, which on this subject is harder than long.

17 likes in reply to #21 13mo
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d.bakkerTL225 Jun 2025#57

Filing a mild objection to the consensus on repeatability versus intermediate precision. Mild because I might be wrong; an objection because nobody has addressed the case that does not fit.

33 likes 13mo
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p.marchettiTL225 Jun 2025#58

Post #54 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it.

Someone will know this better than I do and I hope they say so.

0 likes 13mo
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FFaulknerTL3Regular25 Jun 2025#59

Post #57 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Whatever the answer on repeatability versus intermediate precision turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction.

11 likes 13mo
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w.moreauTL225 Jun 2025#60

I read post #58 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

The version of repeatability versus intermediate precision that I was taught turned out to be a teaching simplification. Useful, and not true in the way I had assumed it was.

24 likes 13mo