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[2026 update] Citation sweep results: how many references did not say what was claimed

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a.thorneTL2Wiki editor5 Dec 2024#1

Citation sweep results: how many references did not say what was claimed Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did.

What changes if the standard account of Citation sweep results is wrong? I ask because I have been treating it as settled and I noticed this week that I could not say why.

Working through the consequences rather than the evidence, since others here are better placed on the evidence.

0 likes 20mo
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peak_purityTL3Analytical chemist17 Dec 2024#2

Before the thread moves on from Citation sweep results — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred.

30 likes 19mo
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m.vukovicTL226 Dec 2024#3
peak_purity, post #2: Before the thread moves on from Citation sweep results — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred. Go to post

The opening post describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

That matches how I use it. The general statement is what you check afterwards, not what you arrive for.

A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none.

10 likes in reply to #2 19mo
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np_gilmoreTL3Nurse practitioner2 Jan 2025#4

Seconded. It reads as careful rather than confident, which is the right register.

3 likes 19mo
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m.onwukaTL29 Jan 2025#5
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mira.patelTL4 Admin16 Jan 2025 · edited#6

Post #3 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Careful with that. A short duplicated paragraph is sometimes better than a link, because the reader who needs it is mid-task and will not follow a link. The test is whether it can drift out of step.

Posted with less confidence than the sentence structure implies.

0 likes 18mo
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r.serranoTL222 Jan 2025#7
np_gilmore, post #4: Seconded. It reads as careful rather than confident, which is the right register. Go to post

Two things can be true about Citation sweep results at once: the mechanism is plausible and the evidence for the size of the effect is thin. Most of the argument here is people defending the first against attacks on the second.

15 likes in reply to #4 18mo
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owen.bradyTL4 Moderator28 Jan 2025#8

I keep a log for Citation sweep results specifically because my memory of it turned out to be systematically wrong in one direction. Six weeks of notes cost nothing and settled it.

6 likes 18mo
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e.mbekiTL23 Feb 2025#9

Post #6 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

That matches how I use it. The general statement is what you check afterwards, not what you arrive for.

I would put this at better than even and not much better.

31 likes 18mo
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microgramsTL2Regular9 Feb 2025#10

Wiki hygiene point: every edit here should say what changed and why in the note, not what section it touched. "Fixed typo" and "corrected the concentration in example two" are very different entries to read back.

Old habit: I write down the expected answer before I calculate it.

16 likes 18mo
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da.bakkerTL215 Feb 2025#11

That is a cleaner way of putting what I was circling around.

7 likes 17mo
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c.wijnbergTL2Member20 Feb 2025#12

Worth separating two things that post #8 runs together.

On Citation sweep results: the maintained page in the documentation commons covers the general case with citations and a review date, which is more reliable than any reply here including this one.

18 likes 17mo
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r.bakkenTL226 Feb 2025#13
m.vukovic, post #3: The opening post describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. That matches how I use it. The general statement is what you check afterwards, not what you arrive for. A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none. Go to post

Answering the Citation sweep results question as asked, then the question I think is meant. As asked: yes, with the qualification below. As meant: it depends on how the first measurement was taken.

0 likes in reply to #3 17mo
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n.rowntreeTL3Regular3 Mar 2025#14

Question for the editors: what is the standard for adding a citation to a claim that is community practice rather than published? At the moment those sentences are unmarked and read as though they were sourced.

1 like 17mo
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s.zamoraTL28 Mar 2025 · edited#15

Where I have landed on Citation sweep results, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it.

12 likes 17mo
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outline_firstTL3Wiki editor14 Mar 2025#16
r.bakken, post #13: Answering the Citation sweep results question as asked, then the question I think is meant. As asked: yes, with the qualification below. As meant: it depends on how the first measurement was taken. Go to post

On post #12 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Worth separating Citation sweep results as a question about the compound from Citation sweep results as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here.

25 likes in reply to #13 16mo
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j.restrepoTL219 Mar 2025#17
peak_purity, post #2: Before the thread moves on from Citation sweep results — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred. Go to post

Careful with that. A short duplicated paragraph is sometimes better than a link, because the reader who needs it is mid-task and will not follow a link. The test is whether it can drift out of step.

I have separated what I observed from what I concluded, which does not always happen.

0 likes in reply to #2 16mo
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cannula_traceTL324 Mar 2025#18
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h.falkTL229 Mar 2025#19
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titration_diaryTL3Regular3 Apr 2025#20

No disagreement from me. Posting only so the question does not look ignored.

33 likes 16mo
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j.delacroixTL3Regular7 Apr 2025#21
cannula_trace, post #18: That matches how I use it. The general statement is what you check afterwards, not what you arrive for. Go to post

That matches how I use it. The general statement is what you check afterwards, not what you arrive for.

1 like in reply to #18 16mo
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ra.mensaTL212 Apr 2025#22

I would call the community position on Citation sweep results likely rather than established, and I would be comfortable defending that hedge.

0 likes 16mo
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a.westergaardTL3Regular17 Apr 2025#23

Citation sweep results sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly.

25 likes 15mo
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c.falkTL222 Apr 2025 · edited#24
m.vukovic, post #3: The opening post describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. That matches how I use it. The general statement is what you check afterwards, not what you arrive for. A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none. Go to post

Following this. I have the same question and no better information than the first post.

11 likes in reply to #3 15mo
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d.magalhesTL2Member26 Apr 2025#25
c.falk, post #24: Following this. I have the same question and no better information than the first post. Go to post

Careful with that. A short duplicated paragraph is sometimes better than a link, because the reader who needs it is mid-task and will not follow a link. The test is whether it can drift out of step.

Adding the caveat now so it does not have to be extracted later.

4 likes in reply to #24 15mo
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t.brandtTL21 May 2025#26
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cohort_watchTL2Member5 May 2025#27

Post #25 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Question for the editors: what is the standard for adding a citation to a claim that is community practice rather than published? At the moment those sentences are unmarked and read as though they were sourced.

That is where I would start, not where I would stop.

33 likes 15mo
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a.coelhoTL210 May 2025#28

Adding the measurement that post #25 says would settle it.

The failure mode on Citation sweep results is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong.

17 likes 15mo
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m.lehtinenTL214 May 2025#29
h.falk, post #19: Careful with that. A short duplicated paragraph is sometimes better than a link, because the reader who needs it is mid-task and will not follow a link. The test is whether it can drift out of step. Go to post

The version of Citation sweep results that circulates here is a simplification of a simplification. It is not wrong, but it has lost the conditions under which it holds, and those conditions are where the interesting cases live.

0 likes in reply to #19 14mo
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n.nybergTL219 May 2025#30
r.bakken, post #13: Answering the Citation sweep results question as asked, then the question I think is meant. As asked: yes, with the qualification below. As meant: it depends on how the first measurement was taken. Go to post

Taking post #29 at face value and following it one step further.

Careful with that. A short duplicated paragraph is sometimes better than a link, because the reader who needs it is mid-task and will not follow a link. The test is whether it can drift out of step.

The general answer and the answer for your case may diverge here.

26 likes in reply to #13 14mo