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Evidence · Meta-analyses

Coming back to: Reading a meta-analysis you disagree with, fairly

TV
to.vargaTL225 Nov 2024#1

Reading a meta-analysis you disagree with, fairly Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did.

Reading a meta-analysis — I have the observation and I do not trust my interpretation of it, so I am posting the observation and holding the interpretation back.

Numbers, method and the conditions under which they were collected are below. Interpret them however they warrant.

1 like 20mo
BD
baseline_driftTL2Analytical chemist1 Dec 2024#2

Reading rather than answering, but this is the post I would point somebody at.

0 likes 20mo
JI
j.iyerTL25 Dec 2024#3

The opening post and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

My experience of Reading a meta-analysis contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.

14 likes 20mo
PM
physio_marchettiTL2Physiotherapist8 Dec 2024#4

When a meta-analysis is unhelpful: if the included studies are heterogeneous in population, intervention, or outcome, pooling them produces a number that represents nothing in particular. Reading the individual studies is more useful than reading the pooled estimate.

5 likes 20mo
CT
c.tullochTL211 Dec 2024#5

Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified.

This is where my knowledge stops and I would rather mark the edge than blur it.

2 likes 20mo
K
KLindqvistTL4 Moderator14 Dec 2024 · edited#6

The arithmetic in post #5 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Worth separating Reading a meta-analysis as a question about the compound from Reading a meta-analysis as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here.

0 likes 19mo
NK
n.krastevTL217 Dec 2024#7
KLindqvist, post #6: The arithmetic in post #5 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check. Worth separating Reading a meta-analysis as a question about the compound from Reading a meta-analysis as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here. Go to post

Sensitivity analysis: the authors re-run the meta-analysis excluding studies one at a time, or by quality, to see whether the pooled estimate changes. Robust results stay similar even when individual studies are excluded.

20 likes in reply to #6 19mo
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist20 Dec 2024#8

Inclusion and exclusion criteria: a meta-analysis is only as good as its inclusion criteria. If the criteria are too broad, apples and oranges get pooled. If they are too narrow, the meta-analysis answers a overly specific question.

I am describing what is, rather than arguing for what should be.

8 likes 19mo
KP
k.pereiraTL222 Dec 2024 · edited#9

Coming back to post #5, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

A network meta-analysis rests on a transitivity assumption that is rarely tested and is frequently violated when populations differ across the network.

0 likes 19mo
MM
maintenance_modeTL3Regular25 Dec 2024#10

Subgroup analysis: sometimes a meta-analysis reports separate pooled estimates for different subgroups (e.g., by baseline body mass index or by trial duration). Be cautious — many subgroup analyses are exploratory and less reliable than the main analysis.

20 likes 19mo
VK
v.klausenTL3Regular27 Dec 2024#11

Where the pooled result and the largest single trial disagree, that disagreement is the interesting thing rather than an inconvenience to be smoothed.

31 likes 19mo
SS
s.solbergTL230 Dec 2024#12

Small methodological point on Reading a meta-analysis: repeating a measurement is cheap and resolves most of what is being argued about here at no cost to anyone.

0 likes 19mo
G
GDashwoodTL3Regular1 Jan 2025#13

This follows post #10 rather than contradicting it.

Where I would push back on the Reading a meta-analysis consensus is the confidence, not the direction. The direction looks right. The confidence is borrowed.

6 likes 19mo
JT
j.teixeiraTL24 Jan 2025#14
to.varga, post #1: Reading a meta-analysis you disagree with, fairly Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. Reading a meta-analysis — I have the observation and I do not trust my interpretation of it, so I am posting the observation and holding the interpretation back. Numbers, method and the conditions under… Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #12 runs together.

The number of included studies should be visible in any citation of a pooled figure. "A meta-analysis showed" without it is a claim about nothing in particular.

It is the kind of thing that is obvious once and never again.

15 likes in reply to #1 19mo
VM
v.milanoviTL3Regular6 Jan 2025#15

Fair, and the limits you put on it are the part I will remember.

0 likes 19mo
NS
n.szaboTL28 Jan 2025#16

Number needed to treat from a meta-analysis: can be computed from the pooled estimate if the baseline risk is specified. More interpretable than pooled relative effects.

That is all I can say without guessing.

1 like 19mo
ID
integrator_draftTL3Regular11 Jan 2025 · edited#17

The practical version of Reading a meta-analysis is three sentences long. The rigorous version is three pages and reaches the same conclusion with the conditions attached.

10 likes 19mo
YR
y.ramosTL213 Jan 2025#18
n.szabo, post #16: Number needed to treat from a meta-analysis: can be computed from the pooled estimate if the baseline risk is specified. More interpretable than pooled relative effects. That is all I can say without guessing. Go to post

On post #16 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

I would keep Reading a meta-analysis and the decision it usually gets used for separate in this thread. They are related and they are not the same question, and merging them is why the last one went badly.

22 likes in reply to #16 18mo
SF
sterile_fileTL3Regular15 Jan 2025#19
n.szabo, post #16: Number needed to treat from a meta-analysis: can be computed from the pooled estimate if the baseline risk is specified. More interpretable than pooled relative effects. That is all I can say without guessing. Go to post

Subgroup meta-analysis multiplies the usual subgroup problems by the number of included trials. Treat it as hypothesis-generating without exception.

That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category.

0 likes in reply to #16 18mo
LC
l.cabreraTL217 Jan 2025#20

I had written a reply contradicting post #16 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Reading the pooled figure without reading the inclusion criteria is the equivalent of quoting a trial without its population. Both are common and both are avoidable.

Caveat: everything above assumes the paperwork is what it says it is.

3 likes 18mo
LF
l.ferreiraTL219 Jan 2025#21

A meta-analysis of four small trials is not stronger evidence than one adequately powered trial, whatever the summary statistic looks like.

The uncertainty is in the assumption, not in the calculation.

15 likes 18mo
HK
h.koodziejTL2Member21 Jan 2025#22

Adding the measurement that post #21 says would settle it.

Where the pooled result and the largest single trial disagree, that disagreement is the interesting thing rather than an inconvenience to be smoothed.

The short version is the first sentence; the rest is why.

6 likes 18mo
AA
an.adeyemiTL224 Jan 2025#23
KLindqvist, post #6: The arithmetic in post #5 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check. Worth separating Reading a meta-analysis as a question about the compound from Reading a meta-analysis as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here. Go to post

Where I part company with post #21, and it is a narrow parting.

Reframing Reading a meta-analysis slightly, because I think the disagreement is about the question rather than the answer. If the question is "does it happen", yes. If it is "how often", nobody here knows.

1 like in reply to #6 18mo
ES
e.silvaTL226 Jan 2025#24

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

0 likes 18mo
HF
h.fonsecaTL228 Jan 2025#25

On post #21 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

If you are new and reading this thread for the answer to Reading a meta-analysis: the answer is conditional, the conditions are in the third reply, and the rest of the thread is worth skipping.

22 likes 18mo
NB
n.bridgewaterTL230 Jan 2025#26
EM
e.mwangiTL21 Feb 2025#27
k.pereira, post #9: Coming back to post #5, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. A network meta-analysis rests on a transitivity assumption that is rarely tested and is frequently violated when populations differ across the network. Go to post

Sensitivity analysis: the authors re-run the meta-analysis excluding studies one at a time, or by quality, to see whether the pooled estimate changes. Robust results stay similar even when individual studies are excluded.

2 likes in reply to #9 18mo
TI
trough_indexTL3Regular3 Feb 2025#28

Bookmarking this. I will come back when I have something worth adding.

0 likes 18mo
JM
j.mwangiTL4 Moderator5 Feb 2025#29

Everything in post #25 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Inclusion and exclusion criteria: a meta-analysis is only as good as its inclusion criteria. If the criteria are too broad, apples and oranges get pooled. If they are too narrow, the meta-analysis answers a overly specific question.

6 likes 18mo
CR
c.ramosTL27 Feb 2025#30

A note on how Reading a meta-analysis gets discussed rather than on Reading a meta-analysis itself: the confident posts get the replies and the careful ones get ignored, and the careful ones have been right more often.

1 like 18mo