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Practice · Reconstitution · continued

Converting between mg/mL and units per dose, both directions posts 61–90

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

ZV
z.vogelTL223 Oct 2024#61
m.strand_rph, post #39: Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does. That matches what I was told, which is not the same as knowing it. Go to post

Taking post #58 at face value and following it one step further.

Swirling until fully clear before drawing is worth the extra minute. A partially dissolved preparation is not uniform and the first dose out of it is not the same as the last.

I would want to see it done twice before believing it once.

0 likes in reply to #39 21mo
M
MakinenTL2Member24 Oct 2024#62

The best check on any reconstitution calculation is to do it twice by two different routes — mass per volume, then volume per dose — and see whether they agree. They should, and when they do not it is nearly always the concentration step.

A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none.

0 likes 21mo
FE
f.espinozaTL225 Oct 2024#63

Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise.

7 likes 21mo
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WoodhouseTL2Member25 Oct 2024#64

Following, with nothing to contribute beyond having asked the same thing elsewhere.

18 likes 21mo
SH
s.hartmannTL226 Oct 2024 · edited#65
v.fontaine, post #48: Arithmetic step by step: a 5 mg vial with 2 mL of diluent gives (5 mg) / (2 mL) = 2.5 mg/mL. On a U-100 syringe at that concentration, 100 units = 1 mL = 2.5 mg, so each unit = 0.025 mg. A 0.25 mg dose = 0.25 / 0.025 = 10 units. Different concentration: different arithmetic, same principle. This is the sort of thing the wiki should… Go to post

The decimal-point error: computing 5 mg / 2 mL as 0.25 mg/mL instead of 2.5 mg/mL is the most common arithmetic error in this subcategory. The habit that catches it: writing the units in every step of the calculation.

A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations.

0 likes in reply to #48 21mo
K
KForsbergTL2Member27 Oct 2024#66
f.espinoza, post #63: Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise. Go to post

Over-dilution: if your target dose is 0.25 mg and your syringe is a 1 mL insulin syringe, you need a concentration high enough that 0.25 mg fits on the scale. A 0.25 mg/mL solution requires drawing the entire 1 mL syringe — not readable. A 5 mg/mL solution requires drawing 50 μL — also not practical on an insulin syringe.

1 like in reply to #63 21mo
ON
o.nybergTL228 Oct 2024#67

Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does.

12 likes 21mo
DI
diluent_indexTL1Member29 Oct 2024#68

I read post #65 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise.

It reads as pedantry until the day it does not.

25 likes 21mo
AK
an.kirchnerTL229 Oct 2024#69

Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does.

0 likes 21mo
R
RidgewayTL3Regular30 Oct 2024#70
b.dumitru, post #5: Taking post #4 at face value and following it one step further. Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise. A qualification I should have led with rather than closed on. Go to post

Where I part company with post #68, and it is a narrow parting.

Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise.

4 likes in reply to #5 21mo
NH
n.haddadTL231 Oct 2024 · edited#71
e.ferreira, post #25: Building on post #22 rather than restating it. Reconstituting a multi-strength kit: if a kit contains 5 mg, 10 mg, 15 mg vials and you are reconstituting all of them, writing the concentration on each vial in permanent marker as you go is the single most useful thing you can do to avoid dose errors later. Flagging that the sources on… Go to post

Reconstituting a multi-strength kit: if a kit contains 5 mg, 10 mg, 15 mg vials and you are reconstituting all of them, writing the concentration on each vial in permanent marker as you go is the single most useful thing you can do to avoid dose errors later.

14 likes in reply to #25 21mo
NS
n.stanescuTL21 Nov 2024#72

Taking post #71 at face value and following it one step further.

On a U-100 insulin syringe, one hundred units is one millilitre and one unit is 0.01 millilitres. Units are volume marks. They mean nothing until you know the concentration.

Reading it back, the second half matters more than the first.

5 likes 21mo
JM
j.mwangiTL4 Moderator2 Nov 2024#73

I read post #71 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does.

The number is defensible. The precision I gave it is not.

0 likes 21mo
SC
s.coelhoTL23 Nov 2024#74

Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise.

The strength of my opinion here exceeds the strength of my evidence.

29 likes 21mo
MS
m.silvaTL23 Nov 2024#75

Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does.

9 likes 21mo
CV
c.vermeulenTL24 Nov 2024#76

Arithmetic step by step: a 5 mg vial with 2 mL of diluent gives (5 mg) / (2 mL) = 2.5 mg/mL. On a U-100 syringe at that concentration, 100 units = 1 mL = 2.5 mg, so each unit = 0.025 mg. A 0.25 mg dose = 0.25 / 0.025 = 10 units. Different concentration: different arithmetic, same principle.

2 likes 21mo
JN
j.nwosuTL25 Nov 2024#77

Coming back to post #75, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does.

Caveat: everything above assumes the paperwork is what it says it is.

0 likes 21mo
BP
b.petrovTL26 Nov 2024#78
a.kowalski, post #36: Confirming post #35 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise. I would treat that as a working… Go to post

Post #75 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise.

That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category.

21 likes in reply to #36 21mo
CH
ca.haddadTL26 Nov 2024#79

Where I part company with post #75, and it is a narrow parting.

Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does.

I would rather be precise about what I do not know than vague about what I do.

6 likes 21mo
VK
v.klausenTL3Regular7 Nov 2024 · edited#80

Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise.

1 like 21mo
M
MakinenTL2Member8 Nov 2024#81
hana.sato, post #42: Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does. Happy to be corrected if someone holds better data than mine. Go to post

Worked example, since the arithmetic is the whole question. Five milligrams into one millilitre is 5 mg/mL. A 0.25 mg dose is 0.05 mL, which is five units on a U-100 syringe. Check that against your own numbers rather than taking mine.

25 likes in reply to #42 21mo
ON
o.nybergTL29 Nov 2024#82

Choose the concentration so that a typical dose lands on a graduation you can actually read. A dose that falls between two marks on a 1 mL barrel is a dose you will get wrong sooner or later.

0 likes 21mo
MW
m.wanjalaTL1Member10 Nov 2024#83

Thank you for taking the time. That was more work than a reply usually is.

1 like 21mo
SH
s.hartmannTL210 Nov 2024#84

Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does.

The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative.

7 likes 21mo
K
KForsbergTL2Member11 Nov 2024#85

Dead volume is the part nobody mentions until it costs them a dose. A fixed-needle insulin syringe holds very little; a detachable-needle luer configuration can hold enough to matter at small doses.

That has held every time I have looked, which is not the same as always.

18 likes 21mo
KK
k.kimaniTL212 Nov 2024#86

Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise.

0 likes 20mo
FF
f.fenwickTL3Regular13 Nov 2024#87
s.coelho, post #74: Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise. The strength of my opinion here exceeds the strength of my evidence. Go to post

The arithmetic in post #84 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does.

I would be interested in a counterexample if anyone has one.

0 likes in reply to #74 20mo
LA
l.aguirreTL214 Nov 2024#88

Answering the question post #86 raises rather than the one it answers.

Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise.

That holds for the case as described. Change the assumptions and it may not.

4 likes 20mo
RF
r.friskTL214 Nov 2024#89
dr_bhattacharya, post #27: Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise. Go to post

Post #88 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Do not shake. Swirl, or leave it. Vigorous agitation introduces air and shear, and neither helps a peptide go into solution any faster than patience does.

Same conclusion as the reply above, reached differently, which is mildly reassuring.

12 likes in reply to #27 20mo
HF
h.ferrariTL215 Nov 2024#90

I read post #86 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Preservative effectiveness is tested against a defined microbial challenge under defined conditions. It is not a licence to treat an entered vial as sterile indefinitely, and no supplier claims otherwise.

That holds under the stated conditions and I have stated them.

26 likes 20mo