The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Evidence · Journal club

Journal club: is percentage weight change the right endpoint?

Solved
Solved by b.wikstrom in post #8
The figures usually contain the finding and the text usually contains the interpretation. Separating them for the first twenty minutes is a discipline worth keeping. For what it is worth, the same held on the two occasions I checked.

Jump to the accepted answer →

I
IHollingworthTL2Member17 Mar 2026#1

Journal club: is percentage weight change the right endpoint? I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below.

Bringing a claim rather than a paper, because the claim is the thing circulating.

The statement gets made confidently and cites SURPASS-4 (Lancet, 2021) when pressed. I have read the trial and I cannot find the sentence it is supposed to rest on.

Either I am reading the wrong section or the claim has drifted from the source. I would like to know which before I repeat the correction anywhere.

14 likes 4mo
FL
f.lindholmTL218 Mar 2026#2

The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to.

None of the above is medical advice and I am not qualified to give any.

1 like 4mo
ED
e.dalgleishTL3Regular19 Mar 2026#3

Where I part company with the opening post, and it is a narrow parting.

Reading order that works for these sessions: registry entry, methods, baseline table, primary result, then abstract last. Reading the abstract first anchors everything that follows.

0 likes 4mo
SS
s.salgadoTL220 Mar 2026#4
IHollingworth, post #1: Journal club: is percentage weight change the right endpoint? I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below. Bringing a claim rather than a paper, because the claim is the thing circulating. The statement gets made confidently and cites SURPASS-4 ( Lancet , 2021) when pressed. I have read the… Go to post

The opening post is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

The most common failure mode is spending fifty minutes on the effect size and ten on the population. Reversing that ratio would improve most sessions.

Correct me on the arithmetic if it is wrong; I would rather know.

18 likes in reply to #1 4mo
BE
bench_entryTL3Regular20 Mar 2026#5
s.salgado, post #4: The opening post is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. The most common failure mode is spending fifty minutes on the effect size and ten on the population. Reversing that ratio would improve most sessions. Correct me on the arithmetic if it is wrong; I would rather know. Go to post

Where the group cannot agree, record the disagreement rather than resolving it by seniority. The recorded disagreement is more honest and more useful later.

Adding it because I spent an afternoon working it out and nobody should have to twice.

12 likes in reply to #4 4mo
IW
i.wojcikTL221 Mar 2026#6

The figures usually contain the finding and the text usually contains the interpretation. Separating them for the first twenty minutes is a discipline worth keeping.

4 likes 4mo
BS
buffer_sheetTL3Regular22 Mar 2026#7

I had written a reply contradicting post #5 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Sessions on negative or null results are consistently the most instructive and the hardest to get anyone to attend.

Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me.

0 likes 4mo
BW
b.wikstromTL2 Solution22 Mar 2026#8
f.lindholm, post #2: The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to. None of the above is medical advice and I am not qualified to give any. Go to post

The figures usually contain the finding and the text usually contains the interpretation. Separating them for the first twenty minutes is a discipline worth keeping.

For what it is worth, the same held on the two occasions I checked.

25 likes in reply to #2 4mo
YM
y.mensahTL3Wiki editor23 Mar 2026#9

Reading order that works for these sessions: registry entry, methods, baseline table, primary result, then abstract last. Reading the abstract first anchors everything that follows.

17 likes 4mo
HE
h.espinozaTL223 Mar 2026 · edited#10

This follows post #9 rather than contradicting it.

The most common failure mode is spending fifty minutes on the effect size and ten on the population. Reversing that ratio would improve most sessions.

7 likes 4mo
MH
ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist24 Mar 2026#11

This follows post #10 rather than contradicting it.

The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to.

That holds for the case as described. Change the assumptions and it may not.

0 likes 4mo
YA
y.adebayoTL224 Mar 2026#12
f.lindholm, post #2: The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to. None of the above is medical advice and I am not qualified to give any. Go to post

Where the group cannot agree, record the disagreement rather than resolving it by seniority. The recorded disagreement is more honest and more useful later.

4 likes in reply to #2 4mo
DV
dr.villanuevaTL3Physician25 Mar 2026#13
bench_entry, post #5: Where the group cannot agree, record the disagreement rather than resolving it by seniority. The recorded disagreement is more honest and more useful later. Adding it because I spent an afternoon working it out and nobody should have to twice. Go to post

The figures usually contain the finding and the text usually contains the interpretation. Separating them for the first twenty minutes is a discipline worth keeping.

Anyone who has looked at this more carefully, please correct the record.

18 likes in reply to #5 4mo
CC
ch.correiaTL225 Mar 2026#14

Coming back to post #12, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Sessions on negative or null results are consistently the most instructive and the hardest to get anyone to attend.

I would be interested in a counterexample if anyone has one.

0 likes 4mo
AR
a.reyesTL4 Admin26 Mar 2026 · edited#15

Picking up post #14: that is the part I would want checked first.

The most common failure mode is spending fifty minutes on the effect size and ten on the population. Reversing that ratio would improve most sessions.

The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative.

1 like 4mo
LS
l.salinasTL226 Mar 2026#16
IHollingworth, post #1: Journal club: is percentage weight change the right endpoint? I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below. Bringing a claim rather than a paper, because the claim is the thing circulating. The statement gets made confidently and cites SURPASS-4 ( Lancet , 2021) when pressed. I have read the… Go to post

Good question, well framed, and I would like to see it answered properly.

7 likes in reply to #1 4mo
SL
s.leclercTL4 Moderator27 Mar 2026#17

The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to.

25 likes 4mo
NS
n.silvaTL227 Mar 2026#18

Reading order that works for these sessions: registry entry, methods, baseline table, primary result, then abstract last. Reading the abstract first anchors everything that follows.

The mechanism is plausible, which is not the same as established.

0 likes 4mo
SC
s.chowdhuryTL3Regular27 Mar 2026#19
dr.villanueva, post #13: The figures usually contain the finding and the text usually contains the interpretation. Separating them for the first twenty minutes is a discipline worth keeping. Anyone who has looked at this more carefully, please correct the record. Go to post

The figures usually contain the finding and the text usually contains the interpretation. Separating them for the first twenty minutes is a discipline worth keeping.

That is what I would do. It may not be what is correct.

0 likes in reply to #13 4mo
JB
j.bhattacharyaTL228 Mar 2026#20
n.silva, post #18: Reading order that works for these sessions: registry entry, methods, baseline table, primary result, then abstract last. Reading the abstract first anchors everything that follows. The mechanism is plausible, which is not the same as established. Go to post

Post #17 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Sessions on negative or null results are consistently the most instructive and the hardest to get anyone to attend.

Same conclusion as the reply above, reached differently, which is mildly reassuring.

0 likes in reply to #18 4mo
JH
j.hartmannTL228 Mar 2026#21

SURMOUNT-OSA (N Engl J Med 2024): Tirzepatide in obstructive sleep apnoea, using an objective physiological endpoint. Notable because soft endpoints are avoided. Two parallel trials addressed the confounder directly.

That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category.

0 likes 4mo
K
KnowltonTL3Regular29 Mar 2026#22

Post #21 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to.

29 likes 4mo
EF
e.ferrariTL229 Mar 2026#23
b.wikstrom, post #8: The figures usually contain the finding and the text usually contains the interpretation. Separating them for the first twenty minutes is a discipline worth keeping. For what it is worth, the same held on the two occasions I checked. Go to post

Answering the question post #21 raises rather than the one it answers.

The most common failure mode is spending fifty minutes on the effect size and ten on the population. Reversing that ratio would improve most sessions.

14 likes in reply to #8 4mo
SS
s.silvaTL230 Mar 2026#24

I will take the caveat as seriously as the claim, which is the point of putting it there.

5 likes 4mo
IR
i.rasmussenTL230 Mar 2026#25
NT
n.torrenceTL3Regular30 Mar 2026 · edited#26

Confirming post #23 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

SURMOUNT-1 (N Engl J Med 2022): Tirzepatide obesity trial. The largest mean weight reduction for a pharmacological intervention at publication. Read the categorical thresholds carefully — they can exaggerate separation.

2 likes 4mo
SA
s.achebeTL231 Mar 2026#27
y.adebayo, post #12: Where the group cannot agree, record the disagreement rather than resolving it by seniority. The recorded disagreement is more honest and more useful later. Go to post

Reading order that works for these sessions: registry entry, methods, baseline table, primary result, then abstract last. Reading the abstract first anchors everything that follows.

I am confident about the direction and much less about the magnitude.

0 likes in reply to #12 4mo
V
VThorvaldsenTL3Regular31 Mar 2026#28

The most common failure mode is spending fifty minutes on the effect size and ten on the population. Reversing that ratio would improve most sessions.

Caveat: everything above assumes the paperwork is what it says it is.

28 likes 4mo
AP
a.petrovTL21 Apr 2026#29

The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to.

14 likes 4mo
AR
ambient_reviewTL3Regular1 Apr 2026#30
n.torrence, post #26: Confirming post #23 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. SURMOUNT-1 (N Engl J Med 2022): Tirzepatide obesity trial. The largest mean weight reduction for a pharmacological intervention at publication. Read the categorical thresholds carefully — they can exaggerate separation. Go to post

Where the group cannot agree, record the disagreement rather than resolving it by seniority. The recorded disagreement is more honest and more useful later.

Genuinely open to being wrong about this one.

5 likes in reply to #26 4mo