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Documentation · Doc review · continued

Promotion criteria, and the one that stops most nominations posts 91–120

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

RM
r.marsdenTL3Regular20 Oct 2024#91

The arithmetic in post #88 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Reviewing your own nomination is fine and is not sufficient. Somebody else has to read it for the process to mean anything.

One more caveat and then I will stop qualifying: the sample selected itself.

1 like 21mo
AA
a.amankwahTL222 Oct 2024#92

A promotion that is declined should leave the topic linked from wherever the question recurs, so the work is not lost.

I would want the raw data before agreeing with my own summary of it.

6 likes 21mo
FR
figure_reviewTL2Member23 Oct 2024#93
a.amankwah, post #92: A promotion that is declined should leave the topic linked from wherever the question recurs, so the work is not lost. I would want the raw data before agreeing with my own summary of it. Go to post

Two sentences on promotion criteria and then I will stop, because the rest is speculation and the thread is better without mine.

What is documented is narrow. What is inferred from it is broad. The gap between them is where every argument here lives.

17 likes in reply to #92 21mo
JM
j.marchettiTL224 Oct 2024#94

Practical experience of promotion criteria, offered as one case with the conditions stated, not as a general finding. Conditions first, because they are what make it interpretable.

32 likes 21mo
KF
k.farrugiaTL3Regular25 Oct 2024#95

Narrowing post #92, because the general version has more than one answer.

Where the review finds the content is right but the framing overstates it, that is the most valuable catch available at this stage.

3 likes 21mo
RO
r.oyelaranTL226 Oct 2024#96
LM
lyophil_marginTL3Regular27 Oct 2024 · edited#97

Check the links. Promotion frequently breaks a cross-reference because the source topic now points at the document rather than the reverse.

Someone should write this up properly, and it should probably not be me.

23 likes 21mo
MY
m.yildizTL229 Oct 2024#98

Filing a mild objection to the consensus on promotion criteria. Mild because I might be wrong; an objection because nobody has addressed the case that does not fit.

0 likes 21mo
EM
e.mikkelsenTL2Member30 Oct 2024#99
r.danquah, post #23: A note on scope: what I am saying about promotion criteria applies to the case in the first post and I would not extend it further without checking. Go to post

Whatever the answer on promotion criteria turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction.

6 likes in reply to #23 21mo
ET
e.tammTL231 Oct 2024#100

Everything in post #98 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Reviewing your own nomination is fine and is not sufficient. Somebody else has to read it for the process to mean anything.

16 likes 21mo
TD
titration_diaryTL3Regular1 Nov 2024#101

Right — I had this wrong and I am glad to have read it before it mattered.

0 likes 21mo
IG
i.guerreroTL22 Nov 2024 · edited#102
j.iyer, post #64: Post #63 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. On promotion criteria the community has more anecdote than the confidence in this thread implies, and I include my own contribution in that. Go to post

Post #100 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Two claims get bundled together under promotion criteria and they need separating. The descriptive one — this is what was observed — is usually well supported. The causal one — this is why — usually is not.

Almost every disagreement in threads like this one dissolves once you say which of the two you are making.

4 likes in reply to #64 21mo
EF
e.ferreiraTL3Regular3 Nov 2024#103

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about promotion criteria than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

18 likes 21mo
AJ
a.jansenTL24 Nov 2024#104

The most useful review comment names a sentence and says what is wrong with it. General approval and general concern are both hard to act on.

0 likes 21mo
DB
dr_bhattacharyaTL3Physician6 Nov 2024#105

Promotion criteria has been discussed here with more heat than it deserves, mostly because two definitions have been in play the whole time.

1 like 21mo
TD
t.duarteTL27 Nov 2024#106

Point three stops most nominations. A document without a maintainer becomes wrong quietly, and that is the failure mode the criterion exists to prevent.

A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations.

8 likes 21mo
LG
lc_gradientTL3Analytical chemist8 Nov 2024#107
z.onwuka, post #80: Where I part company with post #77, and it is a narrow parting. Second maintainers matter. A single maintainer is a single point of failure and every document here that went stale had one. Go to post

Post #106 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Where the promotion criteria reasoning breaks down for me is the step from the group result to the individual case. That step is almost never argued for.

25 likes in reply to #80 21mo
DV
d.vukovicTL29 Nov 2024#108

On promotion criteria, the part that usually goes wrong is that the question is asked as though it has one answer. It has a range, and the width of the range is the interesting bit.

If you can post the two or three numbers you are working from, several people here will check the arithmetic rather than argue about the conclusion.

0 likes 21mo
RA
r.aldana_pharmdTL4Pharmacist10 Nov 2024#109

Narrowing post #106, because the general version has more than one answer.

The most useful review comment names a sentence and says what is wrong with it. General approval and general concern are both hard to act on.

4 likes 21mo
RZ
r.zielinskiTL211 Nov 2024#110
g.pemberton_uk, post #47: Where I part company with post #45, and it is a narrow parting. Promotion criteria: I would want to see the raw numbers rather than the summary before agreeing. Summaries lose exactly the information that would settle this. Go to post

That reframing is the whole thing. The facts I already had.

12 likes in reply to #47 21mo
AK
a.kowalskiTL212 Nov 2024#111

I read the earlier replies on promotion criteria twice before writing this, because I had assumed the opposite and wanted to be sure I was disagreeing with what was said rather than what I expected.

29 likes 20mo
TW
t.wojcikTL213 Nov 2024#112

Reviewing your own nomination is fine and is not sufficient. Somebody else has to read it for the process to mean anything.

Old habit: I write down the expected answer before I calculate it.

15 likes 20mo
FA
f.amankwahTL214 Nov 2024#113

Second this, and I would have said it less carefully.

3 likes 20mo
EP
e.piresTL216 Nov 2024#114
CO
c.ostergaardTL217 Nov 2024#115
a.batista, post #21: Everything in post #20 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have. The most useful thing anyone has posted about promotion criteria in this category was a table of what had been measured and by whom. That is what I would want again. Go to post

My position on promotion criteria is current rather than settled. I have revised it once already and I expect to again, so treat it accordingly.

22 likes in reply to #21 20mo
HS
hana.satoTL4 Moderator18 Nov 2024#116

Review of promoted topics: when a topic is nominated for promotion to a maintained documentation page, the draft is posted here. Community review happens before promotion. Objections are welcome.

I have no interest in any supplier named above.

10 likes 20mo
HB
h.bakkerTL219 Nov 2024#117

I had written a reply contradicting post #115 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Where the promotion criteria discussion usually stalls is that nobody wants to say "I do not know" and everyone is willing to say "it varies". Those are the same sentence with different clothes on.

1 like 20mo
MS
m.strand_rphTL3Pharmacist20 Nov 2024 · edited#118
desiccant_notes, post #59: The most useful review comment names a sentence and says what is wrong with it. General approval and general concern are both hard to act on. Go to post

Confirming post #115 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Offering a way to settle promotion criteria rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision.

0 likes in reply to #59 20mo
NV
n.villalobosTL221 Nov 2024#119
ca.vermeulen, post #9: Marking my uncertainty on promotion criteria explicitly. I am confident about the direction, much less confident about the size, and not confident at all that it generalises past the case in the first post. Go to post

Post #115 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Second maintainers matter. A single maintainer is a single point of failure and every document here that went stale had one.

15 likes in reply to #9 20mo
BI
blank_injectionTL2Analytical chemist22 Nov 2024#120

I have three months of notes on promotion criteria and the honest summary is that the trend is real and the week-to-week numbers are noise. I nearly drew the opposite conclusion from the first fortnight.

6 likes 20mo