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Compounds · Semaglutide

Revisiting: Semaglutide formulation: what is in the licensed product besides the peptide

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Solved by z.vogel in post #8
Everything in post #6 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have. Where I have landed on Semaglutide formulation, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it.

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UC
unit_conversionTL3Regular12 Dec 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Revisiting: Semaglutide formulation: what is in the licensed product besides the peptide Everything below is what sits behind that.

I have spent a fortnight trying to pin Semaglutide formulation down and I want to set out where I have got to, because I suspect the honest answer is duller than the thread this will produce.

What I have: a consistent observation across a small number of cases, collected the same way each time. What I do not have: any controlled comparison, or any reason to think my cases are representative.

The specific question is whether the pattern survives once the obvious confounder is removed. I cannot remove it with what I have.

13 likes 20mo
ZA
z.adeyemiTL213 Dec 2024#2

Adding the boring version of Semaglutide formulation, because the interesting version keeps getting posted and the boring one is usually right.

Check the ordinary explanations, in order, and stop when one of them accounts for what you are seeing. Most of the time the second one does.

17 likes 19mo
CN
cohort_notesTL2Member14 Dec 2024 · edited#3

Fine by me. I had wanted a stronger conclusion and there is not one available.

0 likes 19mo
SK
s.kravchenkoTL214 Dec 2024#4
cohort_notes, post #3: Fine by me. I had wanted a stronger conclusion and there is not one available. Go to post

I read post #2 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Worth separating two things this subcategory keeps merging: what the molecule does, which is reasonably well characterised, and what a particular vial contains, which is a documentation question and has nothing to do with pharmacology.

1 like in reply to #3 19mo
GF
gradient_fileTL2Member15 Dec 2024#5

Research-use-only semaglutide is not a licensed medicine, is not manufactured to pharmaceutical standards, and is not approved for human use. That is a statement about what it is, not a coded opinion about anything.

That is the practical version. The rigorous version is longer and says the same thing.

4 likes 19mo
FE
f.espinozaTL215 Dec 2024#6

Solutions of semaglutide can look faintly opalescent without anything being wrong. Visible particulate, fibres or frank cloudiness are a different observation entirely and are worth raising with the supplier rather than reasoning about.

I would hold that lightly until someone with a larger sample weighs in.

11 likes 19mo
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WoodhouseTL2Member15 Dec 2024#7
cohort_notes, post #3: Fine by me. I had wanted a stronger conclusion and there is not one available. Go to post

The confident answers on Semaglutide formulation and the well-sourced answers are not the same answers, which is the most useful thing I have learned reading this category.

33 likes in reply to #3 19mo
ZV
z.vogelTL2 Solution16 Dec 2024#8
gradient_file, post #5: Research-use-only semaglutide is not a licensed medicine, is not manufactured to pharmaceutical standards, and is not approved for human use. That is a statement about what it is, not a coded opinion about anything. That is the practical version. The rigorous version is longer and says the same thing. Go to post

Everything in post #6 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Where I have landed on Semaglutide formulation, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it.

7 likes in reply to #5 19mo
KB
k.brandl_deTL3Translator · DE16 Dec 2024#9
f.espinoza, post #6: Solutions of semaglutide can look faintly opalescent without anything being wrong. Visible particulate, fibres or frank cloudiness are a different observation entirely and are worth raising with the supplier rather than reasoning about. I would hold that lightly until someone with a larger sample weighs in. Go to post

Picking up post #8: that is the part I would want checked first.

The oral formulation is a genuinely different pharmaceutical problem from the injectable and shares only the active molecule. Absorption enhancers, fasting requirements and a very different bioavailability mean dose numbers do not translate between the two at all.

1 like in reply to #6 19mo
AN
a.nascimentoTL216 Dec 2024#10

Noted, and thank you for writing it out rather than summarising it.

7 likes 19mo
LV
l.vukovicTL217 Dec 2024#11

Post #9 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Where I would push back on the Semaglutide formulation consensus is the confidence, not the direction. The direction looks right. The confidence is borrowed.

0 likes 19mo
WP
weekly_pinTL2Regular17 Dec 2024#12

Thank you for taking the time. That was more work than a reply usually is.

19 likes 19mo
SA
s.adebayoTL217 Dec 2024#13
weekly_pin, post #12: Thank you for taking the time. That was more work than a reply usually is. Go to post

The opalescent appearance in semaglutide solutions is occasionally noted and the mechanism is unclear. It does not appear to correlate with product failure in practice. Visible particles or frank cloudiness is different and would be reason to contact the supplier.

8 likes in reply to #12 19mo
FN
formulary_notesTL3Regular18 Dec 2024 · edited#14

Confirming post #13 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

On alcohol: the labelling does not contraindicate it, but it raises gastric irritation risk and semaglutide already does that. There is no published interaction study and the conservative position is to limit it if you are titrating or if gastrointestinal symptoms are troublesome.

I am reporting what happened, not recommending it.

2 likes 19mo
RW
r.weissTL218 Dec 2024#15
IA
i.aranda_esTL2Translator · ES18 Dec 2024#16

Picking up post #13: that is the part I would want checked first.

Semaglutide formulation is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

13 likes 19mo
II
i.ilungaTL219 Dec 2024#17
formulary_notes, post #14: Confirming post #13 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. On alcohol: the labelling does not contraindicate it, but it raises gastric irritation risk and semaglutide already does that. There is no published interaction study and the conservative position is to limit it if you are titrating or… Go to post

An update on my earlier Semaglutide formulation post: the pattern held for another six weeks and then stopped, which I did not predict and cannot explain.

5 likes in reply to #14 19mo
SL
sleep_logTL2Regular19 Dec 2024#18

On the "does it stop working" question: tolerance in the pharmacological sense is not what the withdrawal trials show. What they show is that the effect persists while treatment continues and reverses when it stops, which is a different finding with different implications.

0 likes 19mo
TD
t.dumitruTL219 Dec 2024#19

Injection site does not appear to matter much for semaglutide exposure. The published comparisons of abdomen, thigh and upper arm found differences small enough to be clinically unimportant, which is not true of every injectable.

0 likes 19mo
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chromatogramTL4Analytical chemist20 Dec 2024#20
Woodhouse, post #7: The confident answers on Semaglutide formulation and the well-sourced answers are not the same answers, which is the most useful thing I have learned reading this category. Go to post

On identity confirmation: a mass close to 4113.6 Da on the intact molecule is consistent with semaglutide and is also consistent with several closely related species. Mass narrows the field; it does not close it, and no certificate should be read as though it did.

0 likes in reply to #7 19mo
L
LJankowiakTL3Regular20 Dec 2024#21

The version of Semaglutide formulation that I was taught turned out to be a teaching simplification. Useful, and not true in the way I had assumed it was.

3 likes 19mo
AC
a.cardosoTL220 Dec 2024 · edited#22
z.vogel, post #8: Everything in post #6 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have. Where I have landed on Semaglutide formulation, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it. Go to post

Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating.

10 likes in reply to #8 19mo
AD
ambient_draftTL3Regular21 Dec 2024#23
r.weiss, post #15: On post #13 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Counter-ion form matters for the arithmetic and is almost never stated. A vial labelled 5 mg of peptide as an acetate salt and one labelled 5 mg as trifluoroacetate do not contain the same quantity of the molecule you are interested in. Written in the hope of being told what… Go to post

Building on post #21 rather than restating it.

Albumin binding is not a unique structural feature and nothing in the class lacks it, but the reversibility matters. Semaglutide binds albumin covalently through a fatty side chain, which creates a very long half-life at the cost of sequestering the free form. That is a trade-off and it is the trade-off that allows weekly dosing.

Reading it again, the caveat matters more than the finding.

31 likes in reply to #15 19mo
MA
mi.amankwahTL221 Dec 2024#24

On formulation: the licensed product is buffered and includes a preservative in the multi-dose presentation. A reconstituted research preparation matches neither, and stability claims made about the first do not carry over to the second.

It is worth checking rather than assuming, which costs nothing.

0 likes 19mo
TS
t.steenkampTL2Member21 Dec 2024#25

Adding a small correction to the Semaglutide formulation summary above rather than a disagreement with it. The substance holds; one of the figures is out by a factor that matters.

1 like 19mo
KA
k.adeyemiTL221 Dec 2024#26
f.espinoza, post #6: Solutions of semaglutide can look faintly opalescent without anything being wrong. Visible particulate, fibres or frank cloudiness are a different observation entirely and are worth raising with the supplier rather than reasoning about. I would hold that lightly until someone with a larger sample weighs in. Go to post

The mass figure differs between sources because of how the different entities report it. The monoisotopic mass of the bare peptide is one number; the mass including the acylation is another. Different sources emphasise different details.

6 likes in reply to #6 19mo
HH
h.hutchingsTL1Member22 Dec 2024#27

Building on post #26 rather than restating it.

Semaglutide versus liraglutide in STEP 8: semaglutide produced greater weight reduction and the discontinuation rates differed. But the trial was open-label for the dosing schedule, which admits expectation effects. Weekly versus daily itself is part of the comparison, not a confounding variable to be removed.

23 likes 19mo
AW
ai.wikstromTL222 Dec 2024#28

Post #24 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Posting my Semaglutide formulation numbers with the method attached so they can be discounted properly. Uncontrolled, unblinded, and collected by someone who wanted a particular answer.

0 likes 19mo
LS
l.sarkissianTL2Member22 Dec 2024#29
k.adeyemi, post #26: The mass figure differs between sources because of how the different entities report it. The monoisotopic mass of the bare peptide is one number; the mass including the acylation is another. Different sources emphasise different details. Go to post

Fair, and the limits you put on it are the part I will remember.

0 likes in reply to #26 19mo
CN
c.nybergTL223 Dec 2024#30
s.kravchenko, post #4: I read post #2 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Worth separating two things this subcategory keeps merging: what the molecule does, which is reasonably well characterised, and what a particular vial contains, which is a documentation question and has nothing to do with pharmacology. Go to post

The C-cell question: semaglutide triggered medullary thyroid carcinoma in rodent toxicology studies. A signal in rodents does not automatically appear in humans, but it is the reason the compound is contraindicated in people with personal or family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma or multiple endocrine neoplasia type 2.

Scoping that to what I have actually seen rather than what I have read.

3 likes in reply to #4 19mo