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Research Methods · Statistics

Second pass at: Absence of evidence and evidence of absence

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s.leclercTL4 Moderator7 May 2026#1

On the subject in the title: Second pass at: Absence of evidence and evidence of absence Working notes rather than a conclusion.

Two things I would like separated before anyone answers on Absence of evidence, because they get bundled and then argued about as one thing.

The first is descriptive: what has actually been observed, by whom, and how. The second is causal: why. I am asking about the first only.

16 likes 3mo
MF
m.ferrandTL1Member11 May 2026#2

Counterpoint on Absence of evidence, offered without confidence: the same observation is consistent with a much duller explanation, and nobody has ruled the dull one out.

19 likes 3mo
EM
e.mbekiTL214 May 2026#3

On Absence of evidence I would separate what is worth knowing from what is worth acting on. The first list is long and the second is short, and conflating them is how threads get heated.

0 likes 2mo
RH
revision_historyTL3Wiki editor16 May 2026#4

Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

P-values and significance: p<0.05 means the data would be surprising if the null hypothesis were true, not that the null hypothesis is false. A non-significant p-value does not mean "no effect".

Adding this to the thread rather than to the wiki, because I am not confident enough for the wiki.

0 likes 2mo
SR
s.roosTL218 May 2026#5
e.mbeki, post #3: On Absence of evidence I would separate what is worth knowing from what is worth acting on. The first list is long and the second is short, and conflating them is how threads get heated. Go to post

Adding the measurement that post #2 says would settle it.

One more thing on Absence of evidence that took me far too long to see: the two figures people quote are not measuring the same quantity. Once you notice that, the apparent contradiction disappears.

13 likes in reply to #3 2mo
GV
g.valckenaereTL3Regular20 May 2026#6

Post #4 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Percentages of small denominators should be reported with the denominator. Two out of three is not sixty-seven per cent in any useful sense.

Posted with less confidence than the sentence structure implies.

27 likes 2mo
ST
s.teixeiraTL222 May 2026 · edited#7

Appreciated. The plain phrasing does more work here than a longer post would.

0 likes 2mo
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desiccant_notesTL2Member24 May 2026#8

Since Absence of evidence keeps coming up, it should probably be a maintained page rather than a recurring thread. I am happy to draft it if someone with more direct experience will review it.

2 likes 2mo
IA
i.amankwahTL225 May 2026#9

A note on how Absence of evidence gets discussed rather than on Absence of evidence itself: the confident posts get the replies and the careful ones get ignored, and the careful ones have been right more often.

2 likes 2mo
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LeitermanTL3Regular27 May 2026#10
m.ferrand, post #2: Counterpoint on Absence of evidence, offered without confidence: the same observation is consistent with a much duller explanation, and nobody has ruled the dull one out. Go to post

Bayesian and frequentist analyses answer different questions and both are legitimate. What matters is that the reader knows which is on offer.

I would treat the number as indicative rather than as a measurement.

9 likes in reply to #2 2mo
TV
t.vasquezTL4 Moderator29 May 2026#11

Where the Absence of evidence discussion usually stalls is that nobody wants to say "I do not know" and everyone is willing to say "it varies". Those are the same sentence with different clothes on.

9 likes 2mo
FK
f.kimaniTL230 May 2026#12
e.mbeki, post #3: On Absence of evidence I would separate what is worth knowing from what is worth acting on. The first list is long and the second is short, and conflating them is how threads get heated. Go to post

Right, and stated more narrowly than I would have dared to state it.

2 likes in reply to #3 2mo
CR
compounding_ruthTL4Pharmacist1 Jun 2026 · edited#13
f.kimani, post #12: Right, and stated more narrowly than I would have dared to state it. Go to post

Answering the question post #11 raises rather than the one it answers.

My position on Absence of evidence is current rather than settled. I have revised it once already and I expect to again, so treat it accordingly.

0 likes in reply to #12 2mo
JP
j.petrovTL23 Jun 2026#14

Rounding and significant figures carry information about precision. A figure quoted to four significant figures from a method with two per cent variability is overstating what is known.

20 likes 2mo
IT
impurity_tableTL3Analytical chemist4 Jun 2026#15

Confounding: a third variable explains an apparent association. In randomised data, randomisation balances confounders. In observational data, confounders can be adjusted for but unknown ones cannot.

Anyone with a larger sample, please post it.

5 likes 2mo
IN
i.norgaardTL26 Jun 2026#16

Building on post #15 rather than restating it.

Absence of evidence came up in a thread eighteen months ago and was answered well. I cannot find it, which is itself the problem, so here is the reconstruction.

0 likes 2mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician7 Jun 2026#17
s.leclerc, post #1: On the subject in the title: Second pass at: Absence of evidence and evidence of absence Working notes rather than a conclusion. Two things I would like separated before anyone answers on Absence of evidence, because they get bundled and then argued about as one thing. The first is descriptive: what has actually been observed, by whom,… Go to post

I read the earlier replies on Absence of evidence twice before writing this, because I had assumed the opposite and wanted to be sure I was disagreeing with what was said rather than what I expected.

29 likes in reply to #1 2mo
IA
id.almeidaTL29 Jun 2026#18

Absence of evidence and evidence of absence: if a study is small and finds no effect, that is absence of evidence, not evidence of absence. A larger study might find an effect that a small study missed.

14 likes 2mo
TA
t.abubakarTL210 Jun 2026#19

Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is.

2 likes 2mo
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PSkarbekTL3Regular12 Jun 2026#20

Taking post #18 at face value and following it one step further.

Reporting rather than recommending, on Absence of evidence. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer.

0 likes 2mo
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microgramsTL2Regular13 Jun 2026#21

Checked the Absence of evidence claim against the primary source this morning. It survives, with a narrower scope than the version quoted here. Posting the narrower scope.

4 likes 1mo
AA
a.adeyemiTL215 Jun 2026#22

Multiple testing inflates the false-positive rate in a way that is entirely predictable and entirely correctable. The correction should be declared in advance.

It is the kind of thing that is obvious once and never again.

13 likes 1mo
RH
revision_historyTL3Wiki editor16 Jun 2026#23
s.teixeira, post #7: Appreciated. The plain phrasing does more work here than a longer post would. Go to post

Narrowing post #20, because the general version has more than one answer.

The honest answer on Absence of evidence is that it depends, and the useful part is the list of what it depends on. Four items, in rough order of how much they matter.

Most people get the first two right and then argue about the fourth.

27 likes in reply to #7 1mo
JI
j.ivaturiTL217 Jun 2026#24

Worth stating the null on Absence of evidence before we explain it: the observation may be nothing. That possibility deserves a sentence and usually does not get one.

0 likes 1mo
WT
week_threeTL1Member19 Jun 2026#25

A distribution shown is worth ten summary statistics. Where a paper shows individual data points, read those first.

8 likes 1mo
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g.bakkenTL220 Jun 2026 · edited#26

The most useful thing anyone has posted about Absence of evidence in this category was a table of what had been measured and by whom. That is what I would want again.

19 likes 1mo
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sterile_tableTL3Regular21 Jun 2026#27
s.roos, post #5: Adding the measurement that post #2 says would settle it. One more thing on Absence of evidence that took me far too long to see: the two figures people quote are not measuring the same quantity. Once you notice that, the apparent contradiction disappears. Go to post

Fair, and the limits you put on it are the part I will remember.

0 likes in reply to #5 1mo
YE
y.eriksenTL223 Jun 2026#28
t.vasquez, post #11: Where the Absence of evidence discussion usually stalls is that nobody wants to say "I do not know" and everyone is willing to say "it varies". Those are the same sentence with different clothes on. Go to post

Answering the question post #26 raises rather than the one it answers.

The arithmetic on Absence of evidence is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it.

0 likes in reply to #11 1mo
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PSundbergTL2Member24 Jun 2026#29

Confirming post #28 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Time-to-event analysis handles differing follow-up in a way a simple proportion cannot, which is why event rates and Kaplan-Meier estimates can differ.

Nothing above should be read as advice about what anyone else should do.

0 likes 1mo
FF
f.fontaineTL225 Jun 2026#30

I had written a reply contradicting post #26 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

I changed my mind about Absence of evidence after someone here asked me for the source and I could not produce one. That is worth saying out loud because it is the ordinary way it happens.

5 likes 1mo