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Nutrition & Training · Hydration & electrolytes · continued

Second pass at: Sodium, potassium and magnesium when intake drops posts 91–120

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

JP
j.petrovTL213 Sep 2024 · edited#91
b.vanhecke, post #41: Orthostatic symptoms: dizziness on standing after lying down can indicate dehydration or electrolyte depletion. Increasing fluids, salt, and potassium usually resolves it. One more caveat and then I will stop qualifying: the sample selected itself. Go to post

Taking post #90 at face value and following it one step further.

My understanding of Sodium is a few years old and may have been superseded. If it has been, I would genuinely like to know rather than keep repeating it.

0 likes in reply to #41 22mo
CR
compounding_ruthTL413 Sep 2024#92
IN
i.norgaardTL214 Sep 2024#93

Constipation and hydration: dehydration makes constipation worse. Increasing fluid intake is the first intervention for constipation alongside other measures.

Not a conclusion. A place to stand while looking for one.

20 likes 22mo
IT
impurity_tableTL3Analytical chemist14 Sep 2024#94

Reduced intake reduces electrolyte intake alongside everything else, which is the mechanism behind most of what gets attributed to the compound here.

If anyone has run this properly I would rather read that than my own guess.

0 likes 22mo
MR
m.rasmussenTL215 Sep 2024#95
e.ferrari, post #33: Taking post #32 at face value and following it one step further. I think the Sodium question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread. Go to post

The documentation on Sodium is better than this thread and I say that as someone who has posted in the thread.

2 likes in reply to #33 22mo
ZO
z.onwukaTL215 Sep 2024#96

Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half.

9 likes 22mo
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v.sjobergTL216 Sep 2024#97

Supplementing without measuring is the default approach described here and it carries its own risks, particularly for potassium.

The general case is well covered; this is the awkward specific one.

28 likes 22mo
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t.vasquezTL4 Moderator16 Sep 2024#98

Baseline measurements before a substantial change in intake give you something to compare against, and almost nobody has them.

I would rather post the uncertainty than round it away.

0 likes 22mo
VK
v.krastevTL217 Sep 2024#99

Potassium: similar to sodium; losing weight involves some potassium loss. Bananas, sweet potatoes, and other potassium-rich foods help. Severe depletion is rare but symptomatic (weakness, palpitations).

Anyone who has looked at this more carefully, please correct the record.

5 likes 22mo
MA
m.achebeTL217 Sep 2024#100
policy_reader, post #88: Exercise and electrolyte losses: sweating during exercise increases sodium and potassium losses. Electrolyte replacement during or after intense exercise helps maintain balance. I have seen it go both ways, which is why I hedge. Go to post

The most useful posts here describe what was measured, what was changed, and what happened, in that order.

The claim is narrower than it sounds, and deliberately so.

14 likes in reply to #88 22mo
DH
dietitian_hollisTL3Dietitian18 Sep 2024#101

Post #100 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Fluid intake and electrolyte intake are separate questions and drinking more water alone can make a dilutional problem worse.

0 likes 22mo
BK
b.kowalskiTL218 Sep 2024#102

Reduced intake reduces electrolyte intake alongside everything else, which is the mechanism behind most of what gets attributed to the compound here.

That is where I would start, not where I would stop.

1 like 22mo
EF
e.ferreiraTL3Regular19 Sep 2024#103
e.lehtinen, post #57: Since Sodium keeps coming up, it should probably be a maintained page rather than a recurring thread. I am happy to draft it if someone with more direct experience will review it. Go to post

Sodium has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet.

7 likes in reply to #57 22mo
NC
n.cabreraTL219 Sep 2024#104

Fluid intake: baseline needs increase with gastrointestinal effects and exercise. Thirst is not a reliable guide during appetite suppression. Drinking regularly (not just when thirsty) is prudent.

If this contradicts something upthread, the upthread version may well be the better one.

18 likes 22mo
RA
r.aldana_pharmdTL420 Sep 2024#105
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s.mbekiTL220 Sep 2024 · edited#106
appeals_desk, post #13: Picking up post #10: that is the part I would want checked first. The thing about Sodium that took me longest to accept is that a plausible mechanism is not evidence of an effect. It is a reason to look, not a result. Go to post

Helpful, and short, which on this subject is harder than long.

3 likes in reply to #13 22mo
NA
n.abernathyTL3Analytical chemist21 Sep 2024#107
ppm_error, post #48: The very ordinary causes of week-two malaise: inadequate hydration, low sodium intake, too-rapid calorie deficit, and inadequate sleep are more common causes of fatigue and malaise than compound toxicity. Go to post

Magnesium: deficiency during weight loss is common and symptoms (fatigue, muscle cramps) are nonspecific. Supplementation is inexpensive and low-risk if needed.

11 likes in reply to #48 22mo
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r.erdoganTL222 Sep 2024#108

Something worth flagging about Sodium: the strongest-sounding claims in this thread are the ones with no source attached, which is the usual pattern and not a coincidence.

24 likes 22mo
KV
k.vanheckeTL222 Sep 2024#109

The reason Sodium is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent.

25 likes 22mo
KP
k.perrinTL223 Sep 2024#110

Rapid correction of a genuine abnormality can be more dangerous than the abnormality, which is another reason this belongs in clinical hands.

The variance between people here is larger than the effect being discussed.

0 likes 22mo
IG
i.guerreroTL223 Sep 2024#111

Exercise and electrolyte losses: sweating during exercise increases sodium and potassium losses. Electrolyte replacement during or after intense exercise helps maintain balance.

1 like 22mo
TD
titration_diaryTL3Regular24 Sep 2024 · edited#112

Seconded. It reads as careful rather than confident, which is the right register.

0 likes 22mo
AJ
a.jansenTL224 Sep 2024#113
n.lehtinen, post #37: Building on post #35 rather than restating it. Potassium: similar to sodium; losing weight involves some potassium loss. Bananas, sweet potatoes, and other potassium-rich foods help. Severe depletion is rare but symptomatic (weakness, palpitations). This has been discussed before and I could not find the thread, so, again. Go to post

Where I part company with post #109, and it is a narrow parting.

Taking Sodium seriously for a moment rather than deflecting: the honest position is that the community has observations and no controlled comparison, and those two things support very different sentences.

22 likes in reply to #37 22mo
EF
e.ferreiraTL3Regular25 Sep 2024#114

The very ordinary causes of week-two malaise: inadequate hydration, low sodium intake, too-rapid calorie deficit, and inadequate sleep are more common causes of fatigue and malaise than compound toxicity.

That is what the documentation says. What happens in practice is usually close.

10 likes 22mo
TD
t.duarteTL225 Sep 2024#115

Everything in post #113 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Orthostatic symptoms: dizziness on standing after lying down can indicate dehydration or electrolyte depletion. Increasing fluids, salt, and potassium usually resolves it.

3 likes 22mo
DB
dr_bhattacharyaTL3Physician26 Sep 2024#116

Narrowing post #113, because the general version has more than one answer.

Supplementing without measuring is the default approach described here and it carries its own risks, particularly for potassium.

Where I would look next, rather than where I would stop.

0 likes 22mo
DV
d.vukovicTL226 Sep 2024#117
in.guerrero, post #50: Narrowing post #47, because the general version has more than one answer. Two things can be true about Sodium at once: the mechanism is plausible and the evidence for the size of the effect is thin. Most of the argument here is people defending the first against attacks on the second. Go to post

What I would want before treating Sodium as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing.

30 likes in reply to #50 22mo
LG
lc_gradientTL3Analytical chemist27 Sep 2024 · edited#118
a.adeyemi, post #24: Building on post #21 rather than restating it. Symptoms attributed to electrolytes here are non-specific and overlap with dehydration, low intake and poor sleep. Attribution from symptoms alone is unreliable. Go to post

My experience of Sodium contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.

15 likes in reply to #24 22mo
RZ
r.zielinskiTL227 Sep 2024 · edited#119

Where there is a genuine question, a measurement answers it and a supplement does not. Blood tests for the common electrolytes are routine and cheap.

That is all I can say without guessing.

0 likes 22mo
RA
r.aldana_pharmdTL4Pharmacist28 Sep 2024#120
a.kirchner, post #14: On post #12 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Posting my Sodium numbers with the method attached so they can be discounted properly. Uncontrolled, unblinded, and collected by someone who wanted a particular answer. Go to post

Sodium intake often falls sharply when processed food intake falls, and that transition is abrupt rather than gradual for many people.

I would rather say I do not know than round it up to an answer.

23 likes in reply to #14 22mo