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Compounds · Semaglutide

Semaglutide half-life: where the 165 to 184 hour figure comes from — what changed since

HB
h.bakkerTL217 Aug 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Semaglutide half-life: where the 165 to 184 hour figure comes from — what changed since Everything below is what sits behind that.

Putting the numbers in the first post, because a question about a compound without them turns into a question about somebody's impression of it.

semaglutide, monoisotopic mass near 4113.6 Da, 19 weeks of my own notes, and 7 lots from 3 suppliers with a purity figure on each. That is the whole basis of what follows.

What I want checked is the reasoning I have built on top of it, not the figures themselves.

0 likes 23mo
AD
appeals_deskTL3Regular22 Aug 2024#2

The opening post describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

What I would want before treating Semaglutide half-life as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing.

1 like 23mo
NV
n.vukovicTL226 Aug 2024#3

On alcohol: the labelling does not contraindicate it, but it raises gastric irritation risk and semaglutide already does that. There is no published interaction study and the conservative position is to limit it if you are titrating or if gastrointestinal symptoms are troublesome.

I would rather post the uncertainty than round it away.

10 likes 23mo
PN
plateau_notesTL2Regular29 Aug 2024#4

Semaglutide's structure is a modified backbone with a C18 diacid attached through a spacer. The acylation is the reason for the long half-life and it is also the reason a plain sequence comparison against native GLP-1 is misleading about how the molecule behaves.

If anyone can point at the primary source I would be grateful.

22 likes 23mo
CH
c.haddadTL231 Aug 2024#5
appeals_desk, post #2: The opening post describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. What I would want before treating Semaglutide half-life as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing. Go to post

Understood, and I withdraw the assumption I opened with.

31 likes in reply to #2 23mo
RF
resistance_firstTL2Regular3 Sep 2024#6

On post #2 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

On the "does it stop working" question: tolerance in the pharmacological sense is not what the withdrawal trials show. What they show is that the effect persists while treatment continues and reverses when it stops, which is a different finding with different implications.

0 likes 23mo
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a.teixeiraTL26 Sep 2024#7

Confirming post #4 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

The mass figure differs between sources because of how the different entities report it. The monoisotopic mass of the bare peptide is one number; the mass including the acylation is another. Different sources emphasise different details.

If anyone has run this properly I would rather read that than my own guess.

6 likes 23mo
KB
k.brandl_deTL3Translator · DE8 Sep 2024 · edited#8
appeals_desk, post #2: The opening post describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. What I would want before treating Semaglutide half-life as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing. Go to post

The opalescent appearance in semaglutide solutions is occasionally noted and the mechanism is unclear. It does not appear to correlate with product failure in practice. Visible particles or frank cloudiness is different and would be reason to contact the supplier.

Not a strong opinion, just a consistent one.

16 likes in reply to #2 23mo
AN
a.nascimentoTL211 Sep 2024#9

On the injection-day question: the labelling for licensed semaglutide allows the day to be changed provided at least two days separate the two injections. That interval is not arbitrary — it is what stops two doses stacking inside one absorption window.

I have written this out at length because the short version keeps being misread.

1 like 23mo
DB
d.bramleyTL3Regular13 Sep 2024#10

Injection site does not appear to matter much for semaglutide exposure. The published comparisons of abdomen, thigh and upper arm found differences small enough to be clinically unimportant, which is not true of every injectable.

6 likes 22mo
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endpoint_lineTL315 Sep 2024#11
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i.dumitruTL217 Sep 2024#12

Thank you for taking the time. That was more work than a reply usually is.

1 like 22mo
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RidgewayTL3Regular20 Sep 2024#13
endpoint_line, post #11: Answering the question post #9 raises rather than the one it answers. The 165 to 184 hour half-life range gets quoted as a fixed number. It is a range across a studied population, and individual clearance varies enough that a person's own steady state may be reached earlier or later than the population average implies. Go to post

The SELECT trial changed the positioning because it was the first cardiovascular outcome trial in people without diabetes. That decoupled the cardiovascular argument from glycaemic control, which is why it mattered beyond its own numbers.

Not the whole picture, but the part of it I can speak to.

0 likes in reply to #11 22mo
SD
s.demirTL222 Sep 2024#14

Post #13 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

The arithmetic on Semaglutide half-life is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it.

25 likes 22mo
LA
l.aaltonenTL3Regular24 Sep 2024#15

Post #13 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Offering a way to settle Semaglutide half-life rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision.

4 likes 22mo
PO
p.onwukaTL226 Sep 2024#16

Adding the measurement that post #13 says would settle it.

Semaglutide versus liraglutide in STEP 8: semaglutide produced greater weight reduction and the discontinuation rates differed. But the trial was open-label for the dosing schedule, which admits expectation effects. Weekly versus daily itself is part of the comparison, not a confounding variable to be removed.

0 likes 22mo
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h.nicolaidesTL3Regular28 Sep 2024#17
Ridgeway, post #13: The SELECT trial changed the positioning because it was the first cardiovascular outcome trial in people without diabetes. That decoupled the cardiovascular argument from glycaemic control, which is why it mattered beyond its own numbers. Not the whole picture, but the part of it I can speak to. Go to post

Research-use-only semaglutide is not a licensed medicine, is not manufactured to pharmaceutical standards, and is not approved for human use. That is a statement about what it is, not a coded opinion about anything.

Adding the caveat now so it does not have to be extracted later.

0 likes in reply to #13 22mo
IG
in.guerreroTL230 Sep 2024 · edited#18
d.bramley, post #10: Injection site does not appear to matter much for semaglutide exposure. The published comparisons of abdomen, thigh and upper arm found differences small enough to be clinically unimportant, which is not true of every injectable. Go to post

On identity confirmation: a mass close to 4113.6 Da on the intact molecule is consistent with semaglutide and is also consistent with several closely related species. Mass narrows the field; it does not close it, and no certificate should be read as though it did.

Happy to be the one who is wrong here if it settles the question.

18 likes in reply to #10 22mo
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ZieglerTL3Regular2 Oct 2024#19

Grateful for the specificity. Vague answers to this question are what sent me looking.

2 likes 22mo
MD
m.dumitruTL24 Oct 2024#20

Post #17 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

I have three months of notes on Semaglutide half-life and the honest summary is that the trend is real and the week-to-week numbers are noise. I nearly drew the opposite conclusion from the first fortnight.

0 likes 22mo
SD
s.duarteTL26 Oct 2024#21
i.dumitru, post #12: Thank you for taking the time. That was more work than a reply usually is. Go to post

Is there a ceiling dose beyond which the effect plateaus? The trials did not study that because they stopped at 2.4 mg. Some people report trying higher doses, but trial data is absent and off-label dosing enters territory this site does not advise on.

18 likes in reply to #12 22mo
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v.bhattacharyaTL28 Oct 2024#22

Good question, well framed, and I would like to see it answered properly.

0 likes 22mo
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a.salcedoTL3Regular10 Oct 2024 · edited#23

Building on post #21 rather than restating it.

Solutions of semaglutide can look faintly opalescent without anything being wrong. Visible particulate, fibres or frank cloudiness are a different observation entirely and are worth raising with the supplier rather than reasoning about.

The claim is narrower than it sounds, and deliberately so.

1 like 22mo
MY
m.yilmazTL211 Oct 2024#24

Adding what did not work for me on Semaglutide half-life, since the failures never get written up and they are half the useful information.

7 likes 22mo
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f.abrahamsenTL2Member13 Oct 2024#25
i.dumitru, post #12: Thank you for taking the time. That was more work than a reply usually is. Go to post

The C-cell question: semaglutide triggered medullary thyroid carcinoma in rodent toxicology studies. A signal in rodents does not automatically appear in humans, but it is the reason the compound is contraindicated in people with personal or family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma or multiple endocrine neoplasia type 2.

13 likes in reply to #12 21mo
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ka.haddadTL215 Oct 2024#26

Discontinuation rates in the trials are worth reading alongside efficacy and almost never are. A large mean effect in a population where a meaningful fraction stopped early is telling you two things, not one.

26 likes 21mo
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g.haalandTL3Regular17 Oct 2024#27

Post #26 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

An observation about Semaglutide half-life that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

0 likes 21mo
SB
s.beaulieuTL219 Oct 2024#28

Where I part company with post #24, and it is a narrow parting.

Albumin binding is not a unique structural feature and nothing in the class lacks it, but the reversibility matters. Semaglutide binds albumin covalently through a fatty side chain, which creates a very long half-life at the cost of sequestering the free form. That is a trade-off and it is the trade-off that allows weekly dosing.

I would call that likely rather than established.

4 likes 21mo
CO
c.ostergaardTL221 Oct 2024#29

The 165 to 184 hour half-life range gets quoted as a fixed number. It is a range across a studied population, and individual clearance varies enough that a person's own steady state may be reached earlier or later than the population average implies.

It cost nothing to check and would have cost something not to.

0 likes 21mo
MS
m.strand_rphTL3Pharmacist22 Oct 2024#30
h.bakker, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Semaglutide half-life: where the 165 to 184 hour figure comes from — what changed since Everything below is what sits behind that. Putting the numbers in the first post, because a question about a compound without them turns into a question about somebody's impression of it. semaglutide,… Go to post

Where the Semaglutide half-life discussion usually stalls is that nobody wants to say "I do not know" and everyone is willing to say "it varies". Those are the same sentence with different clothes on.

0 likes in reply to #1 21mo