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Analytics · Mass spectrometry · continued

Adducts: sodium, potassium, and the peak you did not expect — does this still hold? posts 61–90

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

ND
n.duarteTL28 Mar 2026#61

This follows post #60 rather than contradicting it.

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

That is the honest state of it as of this week.

15 likes 5mo
V
VPoulsenTL3Regular9 Mar 2026#62

Response in electrospray is not proportional to abundance across different species. Using peak intensities from a mass spectrum to estimate proportions is a mistake that looks reasonable.

29 likes 5mo
IW
i.wojcikTL29 Mar 2026#63
p.amankwah, post #24: Two people in this thread mean different things by Adducts and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it. Go to post

The strongest argument against my own position on Adducts, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

0 likes in reply to #24 5mo
BE
bench_entryTL3Regular10 Mar 2026#64

That is consistent with mine, for whatever one more account is worth.

3 likes 5mo
BF
b.friskTL211 Mar 2026#65

Taking post #63 at face value and following it one step further.

Trifluoroacetate adducts are common in material purified with TFA and are one reason a mass spectrum from a peptide can look busier than expected.

I would put the burden of proof on the interesting explanation, not the dull one.

21 likes 5mo
TK
t.kulkarniTL3Regular12 Mar 2026#66

Post #62 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible.

Marking that as an opinion rather than a finding.

0 likes 5mo
GO
g.oyelaranTL213 Mar 2026#67
l.chevalier, post #19: Everything in post #15 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have. Second-hand on Adducts, so weight it accordingly — someone whose method I trust told me this and I have not verified it myself. Go to post

I think the Adducts question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

0 likes in reply to #19 5mo
IL
integrator_logTL3Regular14 Mar 2026 · edited#68
e.iyer, post #34: Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible. Anyone with a larger sample, please post it. Go to post

Where the Adducts reasoning breaks down for me is the step from the group result to the individual case. That step is almost never argued for.

5 likes in reply to #34 4mo
CV
c.vasquezTL214 Mar 2026 · edited#69

The honest summary of what a mass result buys you: it narrows the field of what the material could be, considerably. It never closes it, and no certificate should be read as though it had.

28 likes 4mo
CL
customs_ledgerTL3Regular15 Mar 2026#70

Adducts is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

0 likes 4mo
JD
j.delacroixTL3Regular16 Mar 2026 · edited#71

Post #69 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

I would be cautious about generalising from the Adducts example above. It is a good example. It is one example.

9 likes 4mo
TL
t.lindqvistTL217 Mar 2026#72
dr.villanueva, post #42: On post #40 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. The bit of Adducts that nobody enjoys is that the answer changes depending on what you are trying to decide with it. Say what the decision is and the thread will converge. Go to post

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

Adding this to the thread rather than to the wiki, because I am not confident enough for the wiki.

2 likes in reply to #42 4mo
M
MSaarinenTL3Regular18 Mar 2026#73

What I would check first on Adducts is whether the thing being measured moved or whether the way of measuring it moved. Those look identical in a graph.

0 likes 4mo
BB
b.brandtTL219 Mar 2026#74

The arithmetic in post #73 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

A definition problem is doing most of the work in this Adducts discussion. Once the term is pinned down I suspect the disagreement mostly goes away and what is left is small.

28 likes 4mo
PS
p.silvaTL219 Mar 2026#75

Grateful for the specificity. Vague answers to this question are what sent me looking.

13 likes 4mo
MM
m.malinowskiTL220 Mar 2026#76

Taking post #73 at face value and following it one step further.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

The uncertainty is in the assumption, not in the calculation.

5 likes 4mo
HM
h.mukherjeeTL1Member21 Mar 2026#77
m.adebayo, post #20: Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak. Go to post

Two sentences on Adducts and then I will stop, because the rest is speculation and the thread is better without mine.

What is documented is narrow. What is inferred from it is broad. The gap between them is where every argument here lives.

0 likes in reply to #20 4mo
IB
i.brobergTL222 Mar 2026#78

The reason Adducts is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent.

0 likes 4mo
RT
r.torrenceTL2Member23 Mar 2026#79
z.yildiz, post #2: Practical note on Adducts: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow. Go to post

Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible.

A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none.

19 likes in reply to #2 4mo
CK
c.kuuselaTL223 Mar 2026#80
i.wojcik, post #63: The strongest argument against my own position on Adducts, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet. Go to post

Confirming post #77 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Adducts has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet.

8 likes in reply to #63 4mo
M
MakinenTL2Member24 Mar 2026#81

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

26 likes 4mo
ON
o.nybergTL225 Mar 2026#82

On post #80 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

If someone has run Adducts properly I would rather read that than my own reconstruction of it. Posting mine only because the thread has gone quiet.

0 likes 4mo
W
WoodhouseTL2Member26 Mar 2026#83
a.silva, post #14: Understood, and I withdraw the assumption I opened with. Go to post

Post #82 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Positional isomers and epimers are mass-identical. Any argument that a mass result rules them out is wrong, and it is the commonest overclaim in this subcategory.

Not disagreeing with anyone above, just adding the bit I keep having to look up.

4 likes in reply to #14 4mo
SR
s.radichTL227 Mar 2026#84

A methods point on Adducts rather than a substantive one: if the comparison is not like for like, the difference you are measuring is the difference in method.

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K
KForsbergTL2Member27 Mar 2026#85

Acknowledging rather than arguing. The reasoning holds as far as I can follow it.

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KK
k.kimaniTL228 Mar 2026#86

Worth separating two things that post #84 runs together.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

Worth one more sentence than it usually gets.

0 likes 4mo
MW
m.wanjalaTL1Member29 Mar 2026 · edited#87
m.agyeman, post #52: Reading back through, this was answered upthread and I missed it. My fault. Go to post

Practical answer on Adducts, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

2 likes in reply to #52 4mo
SH
s.hartmannTL230 Mar 2026#88
ms_holloway, post #44: I have three months of notes on Adducts and the honest summary is that the trend is real and the week-to-week numbers are noise. I nearly drew the opposite conclusion from the first fortnight. Go to post

Genuine question rather than a rhetorical one: has anyone here actually observed Adducts, as opposed to read about it? The thread is long and I cannot tell.

8 likes in reply to #44 4mo
RF
r.friskTL231 Mar 2026#89

Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible.

A modest claim, modestly supported.

13 likes 4mo
HF
h.ferrariTL231 Mar 2026 · edited#90
d.petrescu, post #57: Positional isomers and epimers are mass-identical. Any argument that a mass result rules them out is wrong, and it is the commonest overclaim in this subcategory. I would call that likely rather than established. Go to post

Adding a reference point for Adducts. Mine is a single case, collected without controls, and I am posting the method alongside it so it can be discounted appropriately.

27 likes in reply to #57 4mo