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Anaesthesia and elective surgery: the aspiration question — does this still hold?

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Solved by s.ostergaard in post #4
What I want from this Anaesthesia and elective surgery thread is the list of things that would need to be true for the claim to hold. If we can write that list, we can check it.

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K
KnowltonTL3Regular10 Sep 2024#1

Anaesthesia and elective surgery: the aspiration question — does this still hold? I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below.

Asking about Anaesthesia and elective surgery directly, because I have read four threads on it and each answered a slightly different question.

The version I want answered is the narrow one: given the method stated below, is the result within what anyone else has seen? I am not asking what it means yet.

Method, numbers and the two assumptions I am aware of making are below. If the assumptions are wrong that is more useful to me than agreement.

29 likes 23mo
HD
h.delgadoTL224 Sep 2024#2

A supplement is a drug for interaction purposes, and the fact that it is sold without a prescription tells you nothing about whether it interacts. The paperwork is usually worse rather than better.

The variance between people here is larger than the effect being discussed.

6 likes 22mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician4 Oct 2024#3
h.delgado, post #2: A supplement is a drug for interaction purposes, and the fact that it is sold without a prescription tells you nothing about whether it interacts. The paperwork is usually worse rather than better. The variance between people here is larger than the effect being discussed. Go to post

I read the opening post twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

The thing about Anaesthesia and elective surgery that took me longest to accept is that a plausible mechanism is not evidence of an effect. It is a reason to look, not a result.

0 likes in reply to #2 22mo
SO
s.ostergaardTL2 Solution13 Oct 2024#4
h.delgado, post #2: A supplement is a drug for interaction purposes, and the fact that it is sold without a prescription tells you nothing about whether it interacts. The paperwork is usually worse rather than better. The variance between people here is larger than the effect being discussed. Go to post

What I want from this Anaesthesia and elective surgery thread is the list of things that would need to be true for the claim to hold. If we can write that list, we can check it.

31 likes in reply to #2 21mo
FD
f.demirTL2Regular21 Oct 2024#5

Anticoagulant questions come up regularly and are the clearest case for professional advice rather than discussion, because the consequence of being wrong is not gradual.

That matches what I was told, which is not the same as knowing it.

10 likes 21mo
MS
m.steinerTL229 Oct 2024 · edited#6

Nothing here is medical advice and an interaction question is one where the cost of a wrong forum answer is genuinely high. Ask the prescriber or the pharmacist.

A weak preference rather than a position.

3 likes 21mo
RM
r.mcalisterTL3Regular6 Nov 2024#7
m.steiner, post #6: Nothing here is medical advice and an interaction question is one where the cost of a wrong forum answer is genuinely high. Ask the prescriber or the pharmacist. A weak preference rather than a position. Go to post

Coming back to post #5, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Two questions I would want answered before drawing anything from the Anaesthesia and elective surgery data above: how were the cases selected, and what happened to the ones that dropped out.

0 likes in reply to #6 21mo
AI
a.iyerTL213 Nov 2024#8
f.demir, post #5: Anticoagulant questions come up regularly and are the clearest case for professional advice rather than discussion, because the consequence of being wrong is not gradual. That matches what I was told, which is not the same as knowing it. Go to post

Understood, and I withdraw the assumption I opened with.

23 likes in reply to #5 20mo
BN
b.nilsenTL220 Nov 2024#9

On post #5 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

The number people quote for Anaesthesia and elective surgery is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own.

6 likes 20mo
NP
n.petrovTL227 Nov 2024#10

Picking up post #9: that is the part I would want checked first.

The most defensible general position in this subcategory: identify the plausible mechanism, check whether it has been studied, and where it has not, say that rather than filling the gap.

1 like 20mo
BP
b.petrovTL23 Dec 2024#11

Nothing to add on the substance. Thank you for taking the question at face value.

3 likes 20mo
JN
j.nwosuTL210 Dec 2024#12

What I can speak to on Anaesthesia and elective surgery is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know.

11 likes 20mo
AK
a.kowalskiTL216 Dec 2024 · edited#13

Insulin and sulfonylureas are the interaction that the labelling in this class flags most explicitly, because the risk is additive glucose lowering. That is a prescribing question and not a forum question.

I have kept the units in throughout, for the obvious reason.

32 likes 19mo
EP
e.piresTL222 Dec 2024#14
r.mcalister, post #7: Coming back to post #5, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Two questions I would want answered before drawing anything from the Anaesthesia and elective surgery data above: how were the cases selected, and what happened to the ones that dropped out. Go to post

Post #12 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

The most useful reply I ever got about Anaesthesia and elective surgery was a request to state my units. It sounds like pedantry and it has saved me twice.

0 likes in reply to #7 19mo
SK
s.kimaniTL228 Dec 2024#15
a.kowalski, post #13: Insulin and sulfonylureas are the interaction that the labelling in this class flags most explicitly, because the risk is additive glucose lowering. That is a prescribing question and not a forum question. I have kept the units in throughout, for the obvious reason. Go to post

Renal or hepatic impairment changes the calculus for a lot of combinations and is the context most often missing from an interaction question here.

Adding a source would improve this post and I do not have one to hand.

1 like in reply to #13 19mo
JM
j.mwangiTL4 Moderator3 Jan 2025#16

On Anaesthesia and elective surgery I would separate what is worth knowing from what is worth acting on. The first list is long and the second is short, and conflating them is how threads get heated.

7 likes 19mo
DE
d.eriksenTL29 Jan 2025#17

Building on post #14 rather than restating it.

Reporting rather than recommending, on Anaesthesia and elective surgery. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer.

24 likes 19mo
MS
m.strand_rphTL3Pharmacist15 Jan 2025#18

Post #16 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

SGLT2 inhibitors: frequently co-administered and relevant to renal and cardiovascular discussion, not to interactions. There is no pharmacokinetic interaction of concern.

0 likes 18mo
GH
g.haalandTL3Regular21 Jan 2025#19
b.petrov, post #11: Nothing to add on the substance. Thank you for taking the question at face value. Go to post

I have no financial interest in anything named in this thread and I want to say so before I comment on Anaesthesia and elective surgery, because it is the sort of subject where it matters.

0 likes in reply to #11 18mo
EC
e.coelhoTL227 Jan 2025#20

Noted, and thank you for writing it out rather than summarising it.

3 likes 18mo
RV
r.venkatesanTL3Wiki editor1 Feb 2025#21
a.kowalski, post #13: Insulin and sulfonylureas are the interaction that the labelling in this class flags most explicitly, because the risk is additive glucose lowering. That is a prescribing question and not a forum question. I have kept the units in throughout, for the obvious reason. Go to post

Post #17 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

On Anaesthesia and elective surgery the community has more anecdote than the confidence in this thread implies, and I include my own contribution in that.

0 likes in reply to #13 18mo
KP
k.pereiraTL27 Feb 2025#22

Taking post #21 at face value and following it one step further.

Mechanistic reasoning about interactions has a poor predictive record. It is a good way to generate a question and a bad way to answer one.

If this contradicts something upthread, the upthread version may well be the better one.

20 likes 18mo
IS
isotonic_sheetTL3Regular13 Feb 2025#23

I would keep Anaesthesia and elective surgery and the decision it usually gets used for separate in this thread. They are related and they are not the same question, and merging them is why the last one went badly.

8 likes 17mo
PK
p.krastevTL218 Feb 2025#24
RJ
r.jhannsdttirTL3Regular23 Feb 2025#25

No disagreement from me. Posting only so the question does not look ignored.

28 likes 17mo
NK
ni.kravchenkoTL21 Mar 2025#26

This follows post #23 rather than contradicting it.

A pharmacist can answer most questions in this subcategory in a few minutes with access to a proper interaction database, and that access is the thing a forum does not have.

14 likes 17mo
EA
e.almeidaTL2Member6 Mar 2025 · edited#27

Coming back to post #26, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Having read the whole Anaesthesia and elective surgery thread before replying: the question in the first post has not actually been answered yet, and three of us have answered a nearby one instead.

5 likes 17mo
RS
r.sobczakTL211 Mar 2025#28
r.venkatesan, post #21: Post #17 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. On Anaesthesia and elective surgery the community has more anecdote than the confidence in this thread implies, and I include my own contribution in that. Go to post

Where I would push back on the Anaesthesia and elective surgery consensus is the confidence, not the direction. The direction looks right. The confidence is borrowed.

0 likes in reply to #21 17mo

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