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Guidelines revision: what changed and why posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

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o.vukovicTL225 Jul 2024#31

The useful distinction on guidelines revision is between what was measured and what was inferred from it. Both end up in the same sentence and only one of them has error bars.

0 likes 2y
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v.szaboTL3Analytical chemist25 Jul 2024#32

Helpful, and short, which on this subject is harder than long.

0 likes 2y
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k.laurentTL225 Jul 2024#33
LJankowiak, post #21: Worth saying publicly: stepping back cleanly and handing over is a service. Documents with an absent maintainer go wrong quietly, which is the worst way for them to go wrong. Go to post

Post #31 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

One question about the transition rather than the policy: what happens to topics that are in flight when it takes effect? The announcement is clear about posts and silent about drafts.

Reading it again, the caveat matters more than the finding.

5 likes in reply to #21 2y
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s.karlsen_rphTL3Pharmacist25 Jul 2024#34

Coming back to post #30, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

What would change my mind on guidelines revision is a second dataset collected by someone with no stake in the first. Until then I hold it loosely and I would rather say so than pretend to more.

14 likes 2y
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i.bakkenTL225 Jul 2024#35

On guidelines revision, the part that usually goes wrong is that the question is asked as though it has one answer. It has a range, and the width of the range is the interesting bit.

If you can post the two or three numbers you are working from, several people here will check the arithmetic rather than argue about the conclusion.

29 likes 2y
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KLindqvistTL426 Jul 2024#36
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k.salinasTL226 Jul 2024#37

Confirming post #35 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

The most useful thing anyone has posted about guidelines revision in this category was a table of what had been measured and by whom. That is what I would want again.

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d.fontaineTL226 Jul 2024 · edited#38

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about guidelines revision than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

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a.weissTL226 Jul 2024#39

Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half.

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k.roosTL226 Jul 2024#40

One question about the transition rather than the policy: what happens to topics that are in flight when it takes effect? The announcement is clear about posts and silent about drafts.

I would want a second opinion before relying on that.

5 likes 2y
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physio_marchettiTL2Physiotherapist26 Jul 2024#41
c.serrano, post #9: Post #5 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Thank you for announcing it in advance rather than after. The number of places that do the reverse is remarkable. The uncertainty is in the assumption, not in the calculation. Go to post

Where the guidelines revision reasoning breaks down for me is the step from the group result to the individual case. That step is almost never argued for.

20 likes in reply to #9 2y
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n.oseiTL226 Jul 2024#42

I think the guidelines revision question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

9 likes 2y
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v.szaboTL3Analytical chemist26 Jul 2024#43

Answering the question post #40 raises rather than the one it answers.

The edit is clearer. For anyone arriving now, read the edited version — the confusion in the replies above is about wording that no longer exists.

It is worth checking rather than assuming, which costs nothing.

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h.vargaTL226 Jul 2024#44

Thank you for announcing it in advance rather than after. The number of places that do the reverse is remarkable.

This is the sort of thing that ought to be settled and apparently is not.

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d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist26 Jul 2024#45
k.haddad, post #5: The rare case here is the one that costs somebody a week, though, and the common case costs everyone ten seconds. I think the trade is clearly correct. Go to post

Worth saying publicly: stepping back cleanly and handing over is a service. Documents with an absent maintainer go wrong quietly, which is the worst way for them to go wrong.

Happy to be corrected if someone holds better data than mine.

14 likes in reply to #5 2y
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c.tullochTL226 Jul 2024#46

The strongest argument against my own position on guidelines revision, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

5 likes 2y
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KLindqvistTL4 Moderator26 Jul 2024#47

Understood. Thank you for being specific about the limits of it.

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hana.satoTL4 Moderator26 Jul 2024#48
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

Adding the measurement that post #46 says would settle it.

Announcement about the vendor documentation set. Two pages have had their review dates brought forward because the underlying records changed. The pages themselves say what changed and when, as they always have.

Second-hand, so weight it accordingly.

29 likes 2y
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r.venkatesanTL326 Jul 2024#49
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k.pereiraTL226 Jul 2024#50
t.nardone, post #10: Building on post #9 rather than restating it. Where I have landed on guidelines revision, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it. Go to post

Confirming post #48 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

I changed my mind about guidelines revision after someone here asked me for the source and I could not produce one. That is worth saying out loud because it is the ordinary way it happens.

2 likes in reply to #10 2y
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j.petrovTL226 Jul 2024#51
a.vestergaard, post #17: When announcements are made: major policy changes, technical changes affecting site function, planned downtime, and changes to guidelines all get announced here. The evidence for this is thinner than the way I have phrased it suggests. Go to post

One question about the transition rather than the policy: what happens to topics that are in flight when it takes effect? The announcement is clear about posts and silent about drafts.

19 likes in reply to #17 2y
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compounding_ruthTL4Pharmacist26 Jul 2024#52

Agreed on guidelines revision, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states.

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i.norgaardTL226 Jul 2024#53

Building on post #50 rather than restating it.

When announcements are made: major policy changes, technical changes affecting site function, planned downtime, and changes to guidelines all get announced here.

The claim is narrower than it sounds, and deliberately so.

2 likes 2y
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impurity_tableTL3Analytical chemist26 Jul 2024 · edited#54

Post #52 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

A methods point on guidelines revision rather than a substantive one: if the comparison is not like for like, the difference you are measuring is the difference in method.

8 likes 2y
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m.rasmussenTL226 Jul 2024#55
a.nascimento, post #13: One question about the transition rather than the policy: what happens to topics that are in flight when it takes effect? The announcement is clear about posts and silent about drafts. If it helps: the failure mode here is usually boring rather than dramatic. Go to post

Adding a data point of agreement rather than a data point.

26 likes in reply to #13 2y
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z.onwukaTL226 Jul 2024#56

Reading back through the guidelines revision threads from last year, the same three questions come up every time and only one of them has ever been answered properly. That seems like a documentation gap rather than a knowledge gap.

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f.kimaniTL226 Jul 2024#57

The rare case here is the one that costs somebody a week, though, and the common case costs everyone ten seconds. I think the trade is clearly correct.

4 likes 2y
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t.vasquezTL426 Jul 2024#58
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c.chowdhuryTL226 Jul 2024 · edited#59

Post #57 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Practical answer on guidelines revision, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

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two_year_lineTL3Regular26 Jul 2024#60

I read post #56 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Genuine question rather than a rhetorical one: has anyone here actually observed guidelines revision, as opposed to read about it? The thread is long and I cannot tell.

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