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Outcomes · Body composition · continued

Lean mass preservation: what the evidence supports — does this still hold? posts 91–120

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

KR
k.radichTL28 Jun 2026#91
r.aldana_pharmd, post #34: DXA on the same machine with the same technician has a least significant change for lean mass of roughly a kilogram, sometimes more. Below that, two scans are the same scan. Worth reading the earlier posts in this thread before acting on mine. Go to post

Comparison to published data: the trials reported mean fat and lean mass changes. Individual results vary around that mean. Being above or below average is not a sign of something wrong.

That is what the documentation says. What happens in practice is usually close.

2 likes in reply to #34 2mo
HM
h.mbekiTL29 Jun 2026#92

Distinguishing three things in the Lean mass preservation discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both.

0 likes 2mo
AR
a.reyesTL4 Admin11 Jun 2026#93

Everything in post #91 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Neither method is capable of detecting the month-to-month changes that people report detecting month to month.

20 likes 2mo
BO
b.oseiTL213 Jun 2026#94

Narrowing post #91, because the general version has more than one answer.

Lean mass loss during rapid weight reduction: depends on protein intake, resistance training volume, and total energy deficit. Adequate protein and maintaining training intensity both help preserve lean mass.

9 likes 1mo
OB
owen.bradyTL4 Moderator14 Jun 2026#95
lu.cabrera, post #46: Post #44 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Neither method is capable of detecting the month-to-month changes that people report detecting month to month. Go to post

Bone mineral density changes with substantial weight loss are measurable and slow, and are one of the better reasons to have a baseline scan.

0 likes in reply to #46 1mo
KD
k.dahlbergTL216 Jun 2026#96
r.mwangi, post #25: Picking up post #24: that is the part I would want checked first. Where the Lean mass preservation discussion usually stalls is that nobody wants to say "I do not know" and everyone is willing to say "it varies". Those are the same sentence with different clothes on. Go to post

Taking post #95 at face value and following it one step further.

The strongest argument against my own position on Lean mass preservation, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

0 likes in reply to #25 1mo
MH
ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist17 Jun 2026#97

I read post #95 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Preserving lean tissue during a substantial deficit depends on protein intake and a resistance stimulus, and the evidence for both is reasonably strong.

Where I would look next, rather than where I would stop.

14 likes 1mo
NS
n.silvaTL219 Jun 2026#98

Reading rather than contributing, but this is the most useful thread I have found on it.

5 likes 1mo
LD
l.dialloTL220 Jun 2026#99

Worth separating two things that post #95 runs together.

Where I would push back on the Lean mass preservation consensus is the confidence, not the direction. The direction looks right. The confidence is borrowed.

0 likes 1mo
CI
c.inglethorpeTL3Regular22 Jun 2026#100
e.ferreira, post #36: The confident answers on Lean mass preservation and the well-sourced answers are not the same answers, which is the most useful thing I have learned reading this category. Go to post

This follows post #99 rather than contradicting it.

What I would tell a new member reading about Lean mass preservation for the first time: the confident posts are not the reliable ones, and the reliable ones are longer.

29 likes in reply to #36 1mo
MN
m.nwosuTL224 Jun 2026#101
o.vukovic, post #55: Where I part company with post #51, and it is a narrow parting. Photographs under fixed lighting and posture are a genuine record and are the hardest of these to standardise. Go to post

Muscle gained during a deficit is possible in specific circumstances and is not the usual case, and the published evidence is clear about which circumstances.

If it helps: the failure mode here is usually boring rather than dramatic.

5 likes in reply to #55 1mo
EK
e.kjeldsenTL2Member25 Jun 2026#102

The useful distinction on Lean mass preservation is between what was measured and what was inferred from it. Both end up in the same sentence and only one of them has error bars.

0 likes 1mo
PL
p.lindqvistTL227 Jun 2026 · edited#103

Source for the Lean mass preservation figure, since it was asked for. It is in the discussion rather than the abstract, which is why the version circulating is stronger than the paper is.

Reading the surrounding paragraph is worth the two minutes. The authors are more careful than their summarisers.

28 likes 1mo
CE
crossover_entryTL328 Jun 2026#104
HB
h.bhattacharyaTL230 Jun 2026#105
lu.cabrera, post #46: Post #44 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Neither method is capable of detecting the month-to-month changes that people report detecting month to month. Go to post

Comparison to published data: the trials reported mean fat and lean mass changes. Individual results vary around that mean. Being above or below average is not a sign of something wrong.

The evidence for this is thinner than the way I have phrased it suggests.

9 likes in reply to #46 28d
C
CSagredoTL3Regular1 Jul 2026#106
r.chukwu, post #23: Post #22 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. Neither method is capable of detecting the month-to-month changes that people report detecting month to month. Go to post

Reading back through, this was answered upthread and I missed it. My fault.

2 likes in reply to #23 27d
RN
r.novakTL23 Jul 2026#107

I had written a reply contradicting post #103 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Percentage body fat is a ratio, so it changes when either component changes. A rising percentage during weight loss is arithmetic before it is physiology.

0 likes 25d
OA
o.abrahamsenTL3Regular4 Jul 2026#108

Confirming post #107 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

I changed my mind about Lean mass preservation after someone here asked me for the source and I could not produce one. That is worth saying out loud because it is the ordinary way it happens.

20 likes 24d
AM
a.mwangiTL26 Jul 2026#109

Two things can be true about Lean mass preservation at once: the mechanism is plausible and the evidence for the size of the effect is thin. Most of the argument here is people defending the first against attacks on the second.

13 likes 22d
CD
cannula_driftTL3Regular7 Jul 2026#110

Taking post #107 at face value and following it one step further.

Photographs under fixed lighting and posture are a genuine record and are the hardest of these to standardise.

4 likes 20d
AN
a.nybergTL29 Jul 2026#111
v.kirchner, post #57: The documentation on Lean mass preservation is better than this thread and I say that as someone who has posted in the thread. Go to post

Two people in this thread mean different things by Lean mass preservation and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it.

9 likes in reply to #57 19d
TN
t.nguyen_newTL110 Jul 2026#112
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g.bakkenTL212 Jul 2026#113

Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half.

0 likes 16d
ST
sterile_tableTL3Regular14 Jul 2026#114
r.aldana_pharmd, post #34: DXA on the same machine with the same technician has a least significant change for lean mass of roughly a kilogram, sometimes more. Below that, two scans are the same scan. Worth reading the earlier posts in this thread before acting on mine. Go to post

Post #111 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

The version of Lean mass preservation that circulates here is a simplification of a simplification. It is not wrong, but it has lost the conditions under which it holds, and those conditions are where the interesting cases live.

2 likes in reply to #34 14d
SL
s.lindqvistTL215 Jul 2026#115
glossary_check, post #71: Noted, and thank you for writing it out rather than summarising it. Go to post

The most useful protocol is the one you will actually repeat identically. An imperfect measurement repeated consistently beats a better one repeated carelessly.

6 likes in reply to #71 13d
FR
figure_reviewTL2Member17 Jul 2026#116

Adding a reference point for Lean mass preservation. Mine is a single case, collected without controls, and I am posting the method alongside it so it can be discounted appropriately.

15 likes 11d
JM
j.marchettiTL218 Jul 2026#117

The failure mode on Lean mass preservation is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong.

0 likes 10d
RM
r.marsdenTL3Regular20 Jul 2026#118

Where I part company with post #116, and it is a narrow parting.

Neither method is capable of detecting the month-to-month changes that people report detecting month to month.

The rule of thumb is fine; the edge cases are where it earns its keep.

1 like 8d
AA
a.amankwahTL221 Jul 2026#119
k.farrugia, post #86: Lean mass in these measurements includes water, so a change in hydration appears as a change in lean mass. The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one. Go to post

Picking up post #118: that is the part I would want checked first.

Lean mass preservation is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers.

21 likes in reply to #86 7d
LM
lyophil_marginTL3Regular23 Jul 2026#120
g.bakken, post #113: Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half. Go to post

That is clearer than the version I had in my head. Thank you.

0 likes in reply to #113 5d