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Compounds · Semaglutide

Molecular mass of semaglutide and why the figure differs between sources — does this still hold?

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Solved by l.solberg in post #3
Semaglutide's structure is a modified backbone with a C18 diacid attached through a spacer. The acylation is the reason for the long half-life and it is also the reason a plain sequence comparison against native GLP-1 is misleading about how the molecule behaves. The claim is narrower than it sounds, and deliberately…

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AN
a.norgaardTL217 Dec 2024#1

Molecular mass of semaglutide and why the figure differs between sources — does this still hold? — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked.

Putting the numbers in the first post, because a question about a compound without them turns into a question about somebody's impression of it.

semaglutide, monoisotopic mass near 4113.6 Da, 17 weeks of my own notes, and 3 lots from 3 suppliers with a purity figure on each. That is the whole basis of what follows.

What I want checked is the reasoning I have built on top of it, not the figures themselves.

16 likes 19mo
HM
h.mensahTL217 Dec 2024#2

Semaglutide versus liraglutide in STEP 8: semaglutide produced greater weight reduction and the discontinuation rates differed. But the trial was open-label for the dosing schedule, which admits expectation effects. Weekly versus daily itself is part of the comparison, not a confounding variable to be removed.

Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me.

20 likes 19mo
LS
l.solbergTL2 Solution17 Dec 2024#3
h.mensah, post #2: Semaglutide versus liraglutide in STEP 8: semaglutide produced greater weight reduction and the discontinuation rates differed. But the trial was open-label for the dosing schedule, which admits expectation effects. Weekly versus daily itself is part of the comparison, not a confounding variable to be removed. Adding it in case it saves… Go to post

Semaglutide's structure is a modified backbone with a C18 diacid attached through a spacer. The acylation is the reason for the long half-life and it is also the reason a plain sequence comparison against native GLP-1 is misleading about how the molecule behaves.

The claim is narrower than it sounds, and deliberately so.

7 likes in reply to #2 19mo
EV
e.verhoevenTL217 Dec 2024 · edited#4

On post #2 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Adding a reference point for Molecular mass of semaglutide. Mine is a single case, collected without controls, and I am posting the method alongside it so it can be discounted appropriately.

2 likes 19mo
T
ThibodeauTL3Regular18 Dec 2024#5

I have no financial interest in anything named in this thread and I want to say so before I comment on Molecular mass of semaglutide, because it is the sort of subject where it matters.

13 likes 19mo
MR
m.restrepoTL218 Dec 2024#6

Good question, well framed, and I would like to see it answered properly.

27 likes 19mo
ME
m.eriksenTL218 Dec 2024#7
m.restrepo, post #6: Good question, well framed, and I would like to see it answered properly. Go to post

Picking up post #4: that is the part I would want checked first.

The STEP programme populations were selected: enrollment criteria required baseline body mass index over 30, no recent blood pressure crisis, no recent retinopathy, no renal disease at the time. Applying results from that population to someone well outside it is an extrapolation and should be called one.

0 likes in reply to #6 19mo
ME
m.ekstromTL218 Dec 2024#8
a.norgaard, post #1: Molecular mass of semaglutide and why the figure differs between sources — does this still hold? — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. Putting the numbers in the first post, because a question about a compound without them turns into a question about somebody's impression of it.… Go to post

Post #7 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

On the injection-day question: the labelling for licensed semaglutide allows the day to be changed provided at least two days separate the two injections. That interval is not arbitrary — it is what stops two doses stacking inside one absorption window.

4 likes in reply to #1 19mo
TS
taper_shiftTL3Regular18 Dec 2024 · edited#9

Albumin binding is not a unique structural feature and nothing in the class lacks it, but the reversibility matters. Semaglutide binds albumin covalently through a fatty side chain, which creates a very long half-life at the cost of sequestering the free form. That is a trade-off and it is the trade-off that allows weekly dosing.

0 likes 19mo
RM
r.molnarTL218 Dec 2024#10
HA
h.amankwahTL218 Dec 2024#11

Injection site does not appear to matter much for semaglutide exposure. The published comparisons of abdomen, thigh and upper arm found differences small enough to be clinically unimportant, which is not true of every injectable.

If it helps: the failure mode here is usually boring rather than dramatic.

25 likes 19mo
T
ThibodeauTL3Regular18 Dec 2024#12

Post #9 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

The opalescent appearance in semaglutide solutions is occasionally noted and the mechanism is unclear. It does not appear to correlate with product failure in practice. Visible particles or frank cloudiness is different and would be reason to contact the supplier.

I have changed my mind on this once already, so take it as current rather than settled.

12 likes 19mo
LD
l.dialloTL218 Dec 2024 · edited#13

Useful. I have added it to my own notes with the date on it.

4 likes 19mo
CI
c.inglethorpeTL3Regular19 Dec 2024#14
e.verhoeven, post #4: On post #2 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Adding a reference point for Molecular mass of semaglutide. Mine is a single case, collected without controls, and I am posting the method alongside it so it can be discounted appropriately. Go to post

Counter-ion form matters for the arithmetic and is almost never stated. A vial labelled 5 mg of peptide as an acetate salt and one labelled 5 mg as trifluoroacetate do not contain the same quantity of the molecule you are interested in.

0 likes in reply to #4 19mo
RM
r.molnarTL219 Dec 2024#15

I had written a reply contradicting post #14 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

What I can speak to on Molecular mass of semaglutide is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know.

0 likes 19mo
C
CSagredoTL3Regular19 Dec 2024#16

Confirming post #14 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Summarising the Molecular mass of semaglutide thread so far, since it is long and the answer is buried: the first reply has the method, the fourth has the correction to it, and the rest is people agreeing at length.

18 likes 19mo
HR
h.ramosTL219 Dec 2024#17
h.amankwah, post #11: Injection site does not appear to matter much for semaglutide exposure. The published comparisons of abdomen, thigh and upper arm found differences small enough to be clinically unimportant, which is not true of every injectable. If it helps: the failure mode here is usually boring rather than dramatic. Go to post

Gallbladder events appear in the labelling for this class and are more common with larger, faster weight reduction. The mechanism is not specific to the drug — rapid weight loss by any route carries the same association.

That is what I would do. It may not be what is correct.

7 likes in reply to #11 19mo
OA
o.abrahamsenTL3Regular19 Dec 2024#18
m.eriksen, post #7: Picking up post #4: that is the part I would want checked first. The STEP programme populations were selected: enrollment criteria required baseline body mass index over 30, no recent blood pressure crisis, no recent retinopathy, no renal disease at the time. Applying results from that population to someone well outside it is an… Go to post

On alcohol: the labelling does not contraindicate it, but it raises gastric irritation risk and semaglutide already does that. There is no published interaction study and the conservative position is to limit it if you are titrating or if gastrointestinal symptoms are troublesome.

I looked this up rather than remembered it, which is the right order.

1 like in reply to #7 19mo
AR
a.reyesTL4 Admin19 Dec 2024#19

Molecular mass of semaglutide is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers.

0 likes 19mo
GR
g.rasmussenTL219 Dec 2024#20

The C-cell question: semaglutide triggered medullary thyroid carcinoma in rodent toxicology studies. A signal in rodents does not automatically appear in humans, but it is the reason the compound is contraindicated in people with personal or family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma or multiple endocrine neoplasia type 2.

24 likes 19mo
BV
bias_varianceTL419 Dec 2024#21
MS
m.steinerTL219 Dec 2024#22
taper_shift, post #9: Albumin binding is not a unique structural feature and nothing in the class lacks it, but the reversibility matters. Semaglutide binds albumin covalently through a fatty side chain, which creates a very long half-life at the cost of sequestering the free form. That is a trade-off and it is the trade-off that allows weekly dosing. Go to post

Research-use-only semaglutide is not a licensed medicine, is not manufactured to pharmaceutical standards, and is not approved for human use. That is a statement about what it is, not a coded opinion about anything.

23 likes in reply to #9 19mo
IT
impurity_tableTL3Analytical chemist19 Dec 2024#23
h.ramos, post #17: Gallbladder events appear in the labelling for this class and are more common with larger, faster weight reduction. The mechanism is not specific to the drug — rapid weight loss by any route carries the same association. That is what I would do. It may not be what is correct. Go to post

The version of Molecular mass of semaglutide that circulates here is a simplification of a simplification. It is not wrong, but it has lost the conditions under which it holds, and those conditions are where the interesting cases live.

0 likes in reply to #17 19mo
JM
j.moreauTL219 Dec 2024#24

Practical answer on Molecular mass of semaglutide, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

3 likes 19mo
RM
r.mcalisterTL3Regular20 Dec 2024#25

Thank you for taking the time. That was more work than a reply usually is.

15 likes 19mo
RN
r.nakamuraTL220 Dec 2024#26

Worth separating two things this subcategory keeps merging: what the molecule does, which is reasonably well characterised, and what a particular vial contains, which is a documentation question and has nothing to do with pharmacology.

31 likes 19mo
FD
f.demirTL2Regular20 Dec 2024#27
impurity_table, post #23: The version of Molecular mass of semaglutide that circulates here is a simplification of a simplification. It is not wrong, but it has lost the conditions under which it holds, and those conditions are where the interesting cases live. Go to post

The oral formulation is a genuinely different pharmaceutical problem from the injectable and shares only the active molecule. Absorption enhancers, fasting requirements and a very different bioavailability mean dose numbers do not translate between the two at all.

I have seen it go both ways, which is why I hedge.

1 like in reply to #23 19mo
AI
a.iyerTL220 Dec 2024#28

Worth separating two things that post #24 runs together.

On identity confirmation: a mass close to 4113.6 Da on the intact molecule is consistent with semaglutide and is also consistent with several closely related species. Mass narrows the field; it does not close it, and no certificate should be read as though it did.

Anyone with a larger sample, please post it.

6 likes 19mo
SC
so.cardosoTL220 Dec 2024 · edited#29
Thibodeau, post #12: Post #9 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. The opalescent appearance in semaglutide solutions is occasionally noted and the mechanism is unclear. It does not appear to correlate with product failure in practice. Visible particles or frank cloudiness is different and would be reason to contact the… Go to post

Solutions of semaglutide can look faintly opalescent without anything being wrong. Visible particulate, fibres or frank cloudiness are a different observation entirely and are worth raising with the supplier rather than reasoning about.

I would want a second opinion before relying on that.

3 likes in reply to #12 19mo
VB
va.baptistaTL220 Dec 2024#30