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Nutrition & Training · Resistance training · continued

Progressive overload when the scale is falling — one year on posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

TD
titration_diaryTL3Regular6 Sep 2024#31
v.malinowski, post #13: Marking my place. If it changes for me I will come back and say so. Go to post

Reduced appetite makes fuelling a session harder, and that is a practical problem with practical solutions rather than a reason to stop.

6 likes in reply to #13 23mo
IG
i.guerreroTL26 Sep 2024#32
eire_reader, post #20: The practical version of Progressive overload is three sentences long. The rigorous version is three pages and reaches the same conclusion with the conditions attached. Go to post

On post #30 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

I would put moderate confidence on the mainstream reading of Progressive overload and no more. That is not scepticism for its own sake; it is where the sourcing actually stops.

16 likes in reply to #20 23mo
EF
e.ferreiraTL3Regular6 Sep 2024#33

Acknowledging rather than arguing. The reasoning holds as far as I can follow it.

32 likes 23mo
HF
h.falkTL27 Sep 2024#34

Small correction to my own earlier position on Progressive overload. I had the units the wrong way round, which changes the conclusion by an order of magnitude and therefore changes it entirely.

0 likes 23mo
DS
d.szymanskiTL3Wiki editor7 Sep 2024 · edited#35

Cardiovascular work has its own benefits and is not a substitute for a resistance stimulus for this particular purpose.

The reasoning is more useful than the number, which is why I have shown it.

10 likes 23mo
JR
j.restrepoTL28 Sep 2024#36
f.haddad, post #19: Cardiovascular work has its own benefits and is not a substitute for a resistance stimulus for this particular purpose. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #34 runs together.

My experience of Progressive overload contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.

23 likes in reply to #19 23mo
BW
bac_waterTL28 Sep 2024#37
SZ
s.zamoraTL28 Sep 2024#38

Answering the Progressive overload question as asked, then the question I think is meant. As asked: yes, with the qualification below. As meant: it depends on how the first measurement was taken.

1 like 23mo
CW
c.wijnbergTL2Member9 Sep 2024#39
Thibodeau, post #8: Post #5 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Nothing here is medical advice and anybody with a relevant condition should have a programme reviewed by somebody qualified rather than assembled from a forum. Two sources, same conclusion, and I could not rule out that one copied the other. Go to post

I keep a log for Progressive overload specifically because my memory of it turned out to be systematically wrong in one direction. Six weeks of notes cost nothing and settled it.

1 like in reply to #8 23mo
RB
r.bakkenTL29 Sep 2024#40

Reading back through, this was answered upthread and I missed it. My fault.

7 likes 23mo
MD
methods_draftTL2Member9 Sep 2024#41

Post #39 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

The reports here that state the programme, the load and the timeframe are useful. The ones that state an outcome are not.

If this contradicts something upthread, the upthread version may well be the better one.

2 likes 23mo
KO
k.ogunleyeTL210 Sep 2024#42

Adding the measurement that post #39 says would settle it.

Anybody returning after a break should expect to start lower than they left, and expecting otherwise is where injuries come from.

0 likes 23mo
S
SHermansenTL2Member10 Sep 2024#43

Two people in this thread mean different things by Progressive overload and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it.

20 likes 23mo
AZ
an.zamoraTL210 Sep 2024#44
Ziegler, post #29: An honest declaration on Progressive overload: I have a prior here and it is strong enough that you should weight what I say downward. Stating it rather than hiding it. Go to post

A methods point on Progressive overload rather than a substantive one: if the comparison is not like for like, the difference you are measuring is the difference in method.

8 likes in reply to #29 23mo
CE
crossover_entryTL3Regular11 Sep 2024#45

Answering the question post #43 raises rather than the one it answers.

Nothing here is medical advice and anybody with a relevant condition should have a programme reviewed by somebody qualified rather than assembled from a forum.

4 likes 23mo
BW
br.wikstromTL211 Sep 2024#46

Adding a reference point for Progressive overload. Mine is a single case, collected without controls, and I am posting the method alongside it so it can be discounted appropriately.

0 likes 23mo
GR
gradient_reviewTL2Member11 Sep 2024#47

Grateful for the specificity. Vague answers to this question are what sent me looking.

27 likes 23mo
TV
t.vargaTL212 Sep 2024 · edited#48
j.restrepo, post #36: Worth separating two things that post #34 runs together. My experience of Progressive overload contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that. Go to post

Post #46 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Practical answer on Progressive overload, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

13 likes in reply to #36 23mo
OA
o.abrahamsenTL3Regular12 Sep 2024#49
Ostrowski, post #6: The reason Progressive overload is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent. Go to post

Strength and hypertrophy respond to different things, and preserving one during a deficit is a different objective from building the other.

0 likes in reply to #6 23mo
MN
m.nwosuTL212 Sep 2024#50

Progressive overload is well covered in the tag pages, and the older discussions are better than the recent ones because they were argued out properly. Worth twenty minutes before adding to this one.

28 likes 22mo
NS
n.silvaTL213 Sep 2024#51
h.nicolaides, post #23: I think the Progressive overload question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread. Go to post

Narrowing post #50, because the general version has more than one answer.

An observation about Progressive overload that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

5 likes in reply to #23 22mo
MH
ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist13 Sep 2024#52
d.szymanski, post #35: Cardiovascular work has its own benefits and is not a substitute for a resistance stimulus for this particular purpose. The reasoning is more useful than the number, which is why I have shown it. Go to post

Everything in post #48 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Cardiovascular work has its own benefits and is not a substitute for a resistance stimulus for this particular purpose.

A modest claim, modestly supported.

14 likes in reply to #35 22mo
YA
y.adebayoTL213 Sep 2024#53

Progressive overload: I would want to see the raw numbers rather than the summary before agreeing. Summaries lose exactly the information that would settle this.

0 likes 22mo
DV
dr.villanuevaTL3Physician14 Sep 2024#54

Reduced appetite makes fuelling a session harder, and that is a practical problem with practical solutions rather than a reason to stop.

0 likes 22mo
CC
ch.correiaTL214 Sep 2024#55

The arithmetic in post #54 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Two sentences on Progressive overload and then I will stop, because the rest is speculation and the thread is better without mine.

What is documented is narrow. What is inferred from it is broad. The gap between them is where every argument here lives.

2 likes 22mo
TH
TL4_HalvorsenTL4Leader · Journal club14 Sep 2024 · edited#56
an.zamora, post #44: A methods point on Progressive overload rather than a substantive one: if the comparison is not like for like, the difference you are measuring is the difference in method. Go to post

Practical experience of Progressive overload, offered as one case with the conditions stated, not as a general finding. Conditions first, because they are what make it interpretable.

9 likes in reply to #44 22mo
RB
r.bruunTL215 Sep 2024#57

This is the answer, and the reason it is the answer is the more useful part.

29 likes 22mo
FN
formulary_notesTL3Regular15 Sep 2024#58

Post #56 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Anybody returning after a break should expect to start lower than they left, and expecting otherwise is where injuries come from.

0 likes 22mo
AI
an.ibarraTL215 Sep 2024#59
f.yildiz, post #15: Cardiovascular work has its own benefits and is not a substitute for a resistance stimulus for this particular purpose. Go to post

The bit of Progressive overload that nobody enjoys is that the answer changes depending on what you are trying to decide with it. Say what the decision is and the thread will converge.

1 like in reply to #15 22mo
SC
s.chowdhuryTL3Regular16 Sep 2024#60

Right — I had this wrong and I am glad to have read it before it mattered.

6 likes 22mo