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Promotion criteria, and the one that stops most nominations — the long version

FP
forest_plotTL3Evidence synthesis7 May 2025#1

On the subject in the title: Promotion criteria, and the one that stops most nominations — the long version Working notes rather than a conclusion.

A narrow question about Promotion criteria, deliberately narrow, because the broad version has been asked here four times and produced four long threads and no answer.

One question, stated units, stated method, and what I have already ruled out.

21 likes 15mo
JH
j.habermannTL3Regular13 May 2025#2

The opening post put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Second maintainers matter. A single maintainer is a single point of failure and every document here that went stale had one.

24 likes 15mo
CB
c.balogunTL217 May 2025#3
forest_plot, post #1: On the subject in the title: Promotion criteria, and the one that stops most nominations — the long version Working notes rather than a conclusion. A narrow question about Promotion criteria, deliberately narrow, because the broad version has been asked here four times and produced four long threads and no answer. One question, stated… Go to post

The most useful thing anyone has posted about Promotion criteria in this category was a table of what had been measured and by whom. That is what I would want again.

0 likes in reply to #1 14mo
KF
k.farrugiaTL3Regular21 May 2025#4

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about Promotion criteria than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

1 like 14mo
AP
a.petrovTL224 May 2025#5

Check the links. Promotion frequently breaks a cross-reference because the source topic now points at the document rather than the reverse.

It is worth checking rather than assuming, which costs nothing.

17 likes 14mo
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s.poulsenTL3Regular27 May 2025 · edited#6
a.petrov, post #5: Check the links. Promotion frequently breaks a cross-reference because the source topic now points at the document rather than the reverse. It is worth checking rather than assuming, which costs nothing. Go to post

The most useful review comment names a sentence and says what is wrong with it. General approval and general concern are both hard to act on.

This has been discussed before and I could not find the thread, so, again.

32 likes in reply to #5 14mo
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ni.stanescuTL230 May 2025#7
j.habermann, post #2: The opening post put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Second maintainers matter. A single maintainer is a single point of failure and every document here that went stale had one. Go to post

Narrowing post #6, because the general version has more than one answer.

I think the Promotion criteria question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

0 likes in reply to #2 14mo
AR
ambient_reviewTL3Regular2 Jun 2025#8

Where the Promotion criteria reasoning breaks down for me is the step from the group result to the individual case. That step is almost never argued for.

3 likes 14mo
YE
y.eriksenTL25 Jun 2025#9

Reviewing your own nomination is fine and is not sufficient. Somebody else has to read it for the process to mean anything.

23 likes 14mo
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PSundbergTL2Member8 Jun 2025#10
ambient_review, post #8: Where the Promotion criteria reasoning breaks down for me is the step from the group result to the individual case. That step is almost never argued for. Go to post

Distinguishing three things in the Promotion criteria discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both.

0 likes in reply to #8 14mo
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JFitzgibbonTL2Member10 Jun 2025 · edited#11

A promotion that is declined should leave the topic linked from wherever the question recurs, so the work is not lost.

4 likes 14mo
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s.beaulieuTL213 Jun 2025#12
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a.salcedoTL3Regular15 Jun 2025#13
j.habermann, post #2: The opening post put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Second maintainers matter. A single maintainer is a single point of failure and every document here that went stale had one. Go to post

I read post #11 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

What I can speak to on Promotion criteria is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know.

25 likes in reply to #2 13mo
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n.nakamuraTL218 Jun 2025#14
s.beaulieu, post #12: Since Promotion criteria keeps coming up, it should probably be a maintained page rather than a recurring thread. I am happy to draft it if someone with more direct experience will review it. Go to post

Post #11 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Where the review finds the content is right but the framing overstates it, that is the most valuable catch available at this stage.

The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one.

12 likes in reply to #12 13mo
SD
s.duarteTL220 Jun 2025#15

No notes. Posting so the count is not one.

1 like 13mo
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a.sorensenTL223 Jun 2025#16

This follows post #14 rather than contradicting it.

I would call the community position on Promotion criteria likely rather than established, and I would be comfortable defending that hedge.

0 likes 13mo
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s.rasmussenTL225 Jun 2025#17

Coming back to post #16, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Interdependencies: if updating one page requires updating related pages, posting that connection here helps the maintainers see the scope of work.

That is what the documentation says. What happens in practice is usually close.

18 likes 13mo
VB
v.bhattacharyaTL228 Jun 2025#18
s.rasmussen, post #17: Coming back to post #16, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Interdependencies: if updating one page requires updating related pages, posting that connection here helps the maintainers see the scope of work. That is what the documentation says. What happens in practice is usually close. Go to post

Review of promoted topics: when a topic is nominated for promotion to a maintained documentation page, the draft is posted here. Community review happens before promotion. Objections are welcome.

7 likes in reply to #17 13mo
FF
f.fonsecaTL230 Jun 2025#19
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f.wojcikTL22 Jul 2025 · edited#20
a.petrov, post #5: Check the links. Promotion frequently breaks a cross-reference because the source topic now points at the document rather than the reverse. It is worth checking rather than assuming, which costs nothing. Go to post

Promotion criteria came up in a thread eighteen months ago and was answered well. I cannot find it, which is itself the problem, so here is the reconstruction.

3 likes in reply to #5 13mo
EB
e.bakkenTL24 Jul 2025#21

Objections are genuinely wanted at this stage, because a bad promotion is much harder to undo than a bad reply.

A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none.

1 like 13mo
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RodriguesTL3Regular7 Jul 2025#22

Before the thread moves on from Promotion criteria — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred.

7 likes 13mo
AZ
an.zamoraTL29 Jul 2025#23
n.nakamura, post #14: Post #11 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Where the review finds the content is right but the framing overstates it, that is the most valuable catch available at this stage. The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one. Go to post

Post #20 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

For anyone finding this later: the short answer on Promotion criteria is that it depends on one thing, and the rest of the thread is people identifying which thing.

17 likes in reply to #14 13mo
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SHermansenTL2Member11 Jul 2025#24

Where I part company with post #22, and it is a narrow parting.

Where the review finds the content is right but the framing overstates it, that is the most valuable catch available at this stage.

33 likes 13mo
KO
k.ogunleyeTL213 Jul 2025 · edited#25

That is clearer than the version I had in my head. Thank you.

3 likes 13mo
MD
methods_draftTL2Member15 Jul 2025#26

Worth separating Promotion criteria as a question about the compound from Promotion criteria as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here.

11 likes 12mo
TV
t.vargaTL218 Jul 2025#27
n.nakamura, post #14: Post #11 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Where the review finds the content is right but the framing overstates it, that is the most valuable catch available at this stage. The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one. Go to post

Adding the boring version of Promotion criteria, because the interesting version keeps getting posted and the boring one is usually right.

Check the ordinary explanations, in order, and stop when one of them accounts for what you are seeing. Most of the time the second one does.

24 likes in reply to #14 12mo
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gradient_reviewTL220 Jul 2025#28
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c.chowdhuryTL222 Jul 2025#29

Narrowing post #27, because the general version has more than one answer.

Speaking only to Promotion criteria as I have actually seen it, rather than as it is usually described: the effect is real, it is smaller than the thread suggests, and the variance between people is larger than the effect.

6 likes 12mo
TY
two_year_lineTL3Regular24 Jul 2025#30
v.bhattacharya, post #18: Review of promoted topics: when a topic is nominated for promotion to a maintained documentation page, the draft is posted here. Community review happens before promotion. Objections are welcome. Go to post

Everything in post #26 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Reviewing your own nomination is fine and is not sufficient. Somebody else has to read it for the process to mean anything.

16 likes in reply to #18 12mo