The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Evidence · Meta-analyses

Random versus fixed effects: choosing rather than defaulting

Closed
NP
n.petrovTL27 Jun 2025#1

Random versus fixed effects: choosing rather than defaulting — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

Random versus fixed effects, and specifically the version of it that the documentation does not cover. The maintained page handles the general case well and stops exactly where my question starts.

Setting out the gap in case it is a gap in the page rather than a gap in what is known.

13 likes 14mo
F
FFaulknerTL3Regular10 Jun 2025#2

This follows the opening post rather than contradicting it.

A request rather than an answer: could whoever has the primary source for random versus fixed effects post it? I have seen the claim three times this month and each version had lost a qualifier.

1 like 14mo
SM
so.mbekiTL212 Jun 2025#3

Individual participant data pooling is a much stronger design than aggregate pooling and is rare because it requires cooperation rather than a search.

0 likes 14mo
LA
l.aaltonenTL3Regular14 Jun 2025#4

Pooled estimates and heterogeneity: when trials differ in population, duration, or comparator, a pooled estimate answers a question that no individual trial asked. High heterogeneity means effects genuinely differ across studies. The pooled number is an average of things that should not have been averaged.

23 likes 13mo
JS
j.silvaTL216 Jun 2025#5

Quality assessment of included trials should change the analysis rather than sit beside it. A sensitivity analysis excluding the weakest studies is the minimum.

That is my reading. Someone else read the same page differently and was reasonable.

3 likes 13mo
O
OstrowskiTL2Member18 Jun 2025#6
n.petrov, post #1: Random versus fixed effects: choosing rather than defaulting — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Random versus fixed effects, and specifically the version of it that the documentation does not cover. The maintained page handles the general case well and stops exactly where my question starts. Setting… Go to post

Taking post #3 at face value and following it one step further.

Where the pooled result and the largest single trial disagree, that disagreement is the interesting thing rather than an inconvenience to be smoothed.

I would want a second opinion before relying on that.

0 likes in reply to #1 13mo
HN
h.nwosuTL219 Jun 2025#7
Ostrowski, post #6: Taking post #3 at face value and following it one step further. Where the pooled result and the largest single trial disagree, that disagreement is the interesting thing rather than an inconvenience to be smoothed. I would want a second opinion before relying on that. Go to post

Everything in post #3 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Practical note on random versus fixed effects: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow.

33 likes in reply to #6 13mo
TS
taper_shiftTL3Regular21 Jun 2025 · edited#8

That is a fair summary of where the discussion has got to.

17 likes 13mo
AA
a.asanteTL222 Jun 2025#9

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about random versus fixed effects than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

1 like 13mo
LO
l.oseiTL224 Jun 2025#10
so.mbeki, post #3: Individual participant data pooling is a much stronger design than aggregate pooling and is rare because it requires cooperation rather than a search. Go to post

The I-squared statistic describes the proportion of variability not attributable to chance and is frequently read as a threshold. It is a description rather than a test.

0 likes in reply to #3 13mo
CI
citation_indexTL2Member25 Jun 2025#11

That is the distinction I keep failing to hold on to. Written down now.

12 likes 13mo
MO
m.oyelaranTL227 Jun 2025#12

Fixed-effects versus random-effects models: fixed-effects assumes all studies are estimating the same thing and variation is sampling error. Random-effects assumes studies are estimating effects from different distributions and allows between-study variance. Choice matters if heterogeneity is high.

A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations.

26 likes 13mo
B
BirkelandTL3Regular28 Jun 2025 · edited#13
m.oyelaran, post #12: Fixed-effects versus random-effects models: fixed-effects assumes all studies are estimating the same thing and variation is sampling error. Random-effects assumes studies are estimating effects from different distributions and allows between-study variance. Choice matters if heterogeneity is high. A single observation, in a thread that… Go to post

The version of random versus fixed effects that circulates here is a simplification of a simplification. It is not wrong, but it has lost the conditions under which it holds, and those conditions are where the interesting cases live.

0 likes in reply to #12 13mo
PF
p.fontaineTL230 Jun 2025#14

Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified.

Marking that as an opinion rather than a finding.

2 likes 13mo
CT
cannula_traceTL3Regular1 Jul 2025#15

High heterogeneity is the finding rather than a nuisance to be minimised. If the effect genuinely differs across settings, an average of those settings is an average of things that should not have been averaged.

That is what the documentation says. What happens in practice is usually close.

8 likes 13mo
VR
v.rautioTL22 Jul 2025#16
OF
outline_firstTL3Wiki editor4 Jul 2025#17
n.petrov, post #1: Random versus fixed effects: choosing rather than defaulting — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Random versus fixed effects, and specifically the version of it that the documentation does not cover. The maintained page handles the general case well and stops exactly where my question starts. Setting… Go to post

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

That is the honest state of it as of this week.

0 likes in reply to #1 13mo
GA
g.amankwahTL25 Jul 2025#18
j.silva, post #5: Quality assessment of included trials should change the analysis rather than sit beside it. A sensitivity analysis excluding the weakest studies is the minimum. That is my reading. Someone else read the same page differently and was reasonable. Go to post

I read post #14 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Fixed-effect and random-effects models answer different questions. The first assumes one true effect; the second assumes a distribution of them. Choosing between them is an assumption, not a technicality.

0 likes in reply to #5 13mo
BP
bench_peakTL3Regular6 Jul 2025#19

Taking random versus fixed effects seriously for a moment rather than deflecting: the honest position is that the community has observations and no controlled comparison, and those two things support very different sentences.

25 likes 13mo
SO
s.oyelaranTL27 Jul 2025#20
taper_shift, post #8: That is a fair summary of where the discussion has got to. Go to post

Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified.

0 likes in reply to #8 13mo
SS
system_suitabilityTL3Analytical chemist9 Jul 2025 · edited#21
Birkeland, post #13: The version of random versus fixed effects that circulates here is a simplification of a simplification. It is not wrong, but it has lost the conditions under which it holds, and those conditions are where the interesting cases live. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #19 runs together.

An observation about random versus fixed effects that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

20 likes in reply to #13 13mo
This topic was closed 180 days after the last reply. Closing is automatic for quiet topics so that a settled answer does not collect new questions underneath it. If you have a follow-up, open a new topic and link back to this one — that keeps both readable and gives your question its own title.

Suggested topics

TopicParticipantsRepliesViewsActivity
Random versus fixed effects: choosing rather than defaulting — a second dataset
On the subject in the title: Random versus fixed effects: choosing rather than defaulting — a second dataset Working notes rather than a conclusion. Posting a small dataset on Random versus fixed effects. It…
NCJVSDBSEF+95 106 20k 17mo
Publication bias detection and its low power — does this still hold?
The question in the title: Publication bias detection and its low power — does this still hold? I will give what I have already checked below so nobody repeats it. Collecting what is known about Publication…
RCGAKDBSP+24 28 2.4k 3mo
A pooled estimate that changed when one trial was added
A pooled estimate that changed when one trial was added — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. I was wrong about pooled estimate in a thread last spring and I would like to…
PMIDOIOO+24 28 3.5k 2d
Prediction intervals and why they are more honest than confidence intervals
Posting this under the heading it deserves: Prediction intervals and why they are more honest than confidence intervals Everything below is what sits behind that. I have spent a fortnight trying to pin…
DBWSRMON+21 25 46k 4mo
Risk-of-bias tools and the judgement they conceal — does this still hold?
Risk-of-bias tools and the judgement they conceal — does this still hold? — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. Asking about Risk-of-bias tools on behalf of…
GLGEBSR+26 30 5.8k 23h

Related topics — sharing the tags effect size, publication bias, risk of bias

TopicParticipantsRepliesViewsActivity
Preprint servers and what screening they do — the long version
On the subject in the title: Preprint servers and what screening they do — the long version Working notes rather than a conclusion. A preprint question rather than a question about the finding in it. The…
APNEYASSRM+7 11 26k 4mo
[2026 update] Confounding by indication, explained with a concrete example
Confounding by indication, explained with a concrete example Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. I have seen SURPASS-4 ( Lancet , 2021) cited in support of a…
DMELCVHNIG+103 116 22k 5mo
About the Statistics category
Effect sizes, intervals, multiplicity, and the difference between absent and undetected. This post is a community wiki: any member at trust level 3 or above can edit it, and every edit is recorded with its…
SLJMBVCAV+4 8 2.3k 7mo
Designing a personal experiment that could change your mind
Posting this under the heading it deserves: Designing a personal experiment that could change your mind Everything below is what sits behind that. I was wrong about designing a personal experiment in a thread…
MGECFACHG+2 6 695 6mo
Journal club: SUSTAIN 6 and its retinopathy signal — does this still hold?
The question in the title: Journal club: SUSTAIN 6 and its retinopathy signal — does this still hold? I will give what I have already checked below so nobody repeats it. Reading SUSTAIN 6 ( N Engl J Med ,…
RONSPPSDOB+60 66 12k 16mo