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Analytics · HPLC & UHPLC

Reading a chromatogram someone posted without axes

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a.zamoraTL21 Feb 2025#1

Reading a chromatogram someone posted without axes — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

Posting a small dataset on reading a chromatogram. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the method is stated so it can be discounted appropriately.

What I would like is not agreement but a second dataset collected by someone with no stake in mine. If one exists I would rather read it than argue for this one.

50 likes 18mo
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c.marchettiTL28 Feb 2025#2

Adding a note of thanks rather than an opinion. I did not know most of that.

13 likes 18mo
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DOdendaalTL3Regular13 Feb 2025#3

An update on my earlier reading a chromatogram post: the pattern held for another six weeks and then stopped, which I did not predict and cannot explain.

4 likes 17mo
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d.vestergaardTL217 Feb 2025#4

The arithmetic in post #3 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Change the wavelength and the proportions change even though the sample has not. That is the reason the wavelength has to be on the document for the number to mean anything.

0 likes 17mo
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vial_tableTL2Member21 Feb 2025 · edited#5
a.zamora, post #1: Reading a chromatogram someone posted without axes — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Posting a small dataset on reading a chromatogram. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the method is stated so it can be discounted appropriately. What I would like is not agreement but a second dataset collected by… Go to post

Gradient slope is the single biggest driver of apparent purity differences. A shallower gradient over a longer run resolves more impurities and gives a higher purity figure. A steep gradient produces a tidier-looking chromatogram with fewer visible peaks and gives a lower purity figure. Both are legitimate methods and they will not produce the same number.

Nothing above should be read as advice about what anyone else should do.

0 likes in reply to #1 17mo
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s.salgadoTL225 Feb 2025#6
vial_table, post #5: Gradient slope is the single biggest driver of apparent purity differences. A shallower gradient over a longer run resolves more impurities and gives a higher purity figure. A steep gradient produces a tidier-looking chromatogram with fewer visible peaks and gives a lower purity figure. Both are legitimate methods and they will not… Go to post

On integration: where the baseline is drawn matters more than most people realise. On a clean chromatogram with well-resolved peaks the choice is inconsequential. On a chromatogram with a trailing shoulder or a rising baseline it matters. Differences of one to two percentage points between defensible integrations are ordinary.

That is all I can say without guessing.

19 likes in reply to #5 17mo
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integrator_logTL3Regular1 Mar 2025#7

Everything in post #3 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Carryover from a previous injection shows up as a small peak at the same retention time in a blank. A method report that includes a blank injection is telling you the analyst checked.

8 likes 17mo
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f.lindholmTL24 Mar 2025#8

Narrowing post #7, because the general version has more than one answer.

Having read the whole reading a chromatogram thread before replying: the question in the first post has not actually been answered yet, and three of us have answered a nearby one instead.

2 likes 17mo
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v.klausenTL3Regular8 Mar 2025#9
a.zamora, post #1: Reading a chromatogram someone posted without axes — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Posting a small dataset on reading a chromatogram. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the method is stated so it can be discounted appropriately. What I would like is not agreement but a second dataset collected by… Go to post

That reframing is the whole thing. The facts I already had.

0 likes in reply to #1 17mo
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y.ramosTL211 Mar 2025#10

Confirming post #7 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

System suitability testing: injections run before and during the sample run to establish whether the instrument, column and method were performing when the sample was analysed. If suitability did not pass, the sample results from that run are uninterpretable.

26 likes 17mo
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BDraganovTL2Member15 Mar 2025#11
a.zamora, post #1: Reading a chromatogram someone posted without axes — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Posting a small dataset on reading a chromatogram. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the method is stated so it can be discounted appropriately. What I would like is not agreement but a second dataset collected by… Go to post

Following this. I have the same question and no better information than the first post.

32 likes in reply to #1 16mo
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h.kimaniTL218 Mar 2025#12
DOdendaal, post #3: An update on my earlier reading a chromatogram post: the pattern held for another six weeks and then stopped, which I did not predict and cannot explain. Go to post

On post #10 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

The reason reading a chromatogram keeps being re-asked is that the answer is conditional and people quote it without the condition. It is not that the answer is unknown.

0 likes in reply to #3 16mo
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h.almeidaTL2Member21 Mar 2025#13

Post #12 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

What I would want before treating reading a chromatogram as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing.

3 likes 16mo
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j.palaciosTL224 Mar 2025#14

Retention time is only comparable within a laboratory on a given method. Quoting a retention time across two reports as evidence of identity is not a valid comparison.

11 likes 16mo
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integrator_traceTL2Member27 Mar 2025#15
h.almeida, post #13: Post #12 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. What I would want before treating reading a chromatogram as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing. Go to post

If someone has run reading a chromatogram properly I would rather read that than my own reconstruction of it. Posting mine only because the thread has gone quiet.

0 likes in reply to #13 16mo
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n.chowdhuryTL230 Mar 2025#16

Gradient delay volume differs between instruments and shifts the whole chromatogram. It is why a transferred method rarely reproduces retention times exactly on a different system.

That is the practical version. The rigorous version is longer and says the same thing.

1 like 16mo
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a.schaefferTL2Member2 Apr 2025#17

Confirming post #16 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Method validation is the demonstration that a method can separate the compound from its degradation products and impurities reliably. A method that cannot resolve an impurity from the parent peak will not detect that impurity.

I would hold that lightly until someone with a larger sample weighs in.

6 likes 16mo
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n.kirchnerTL25 Apr 2025#18

I had written a reply contradicting post #14 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Marking my uncertainty on reading a chromatogram explicitly. I am confident about the direction, much less confident about the size, and not confident at all that it generalises past the case in the first post.

16 likes 16mo
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v.milanoviTL3Regular8 Apr 2025#19

On reading a chromatogram the community has more anecdote than the confidence in this thread implies, and I include my own contribution in that.

0 likes 16mo
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ne.laurentTL211 Apr 2025#20
a.zamora, post #1: Reading a chromatogram someone posted without axes — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Posting a small dataset on reading a chromatogram. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the method is stated so it can be discounted appropriately. What I would like is not agreement but a second dataset collected by… Go to post

No notes. Posting so the count is not one.

3 likes in reply to #1 16mo
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endo_fellow_rkTL314 Apr 2025#21
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y.adebayoTL216 Apr 2025#22

Taking post #19 at face value and following it one step further.

Two people in this thread mean different things by reading a chromatogram and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it.

0 likes 15mo
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ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist19 Apr 2025#23

Injection volume matters because column overload distorts peak shape, and an overloaded main peak can swallow a small neighbour. A certificate without injection volume is missing something load-bearing.

26 likes 15mo
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m.ibarraTL222 Apr 2025#24

A chromatogram image at a resolution where you can see peak shape but not baseline detail is worth having and is not the same as the data. Ask for the integration table if the number matters.

I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this.

12 likes 15mo
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s.leclercTL4 Moderator25 Apr 2025#25
endo_fellow_rk, post #21: Peaks that do not elute do not appear in the area percentage. Aggregates and strongly retained species can be entirely invisible to a standard method, which is a ceiling on what any purity figure can claim. That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct. Go to post

Agreed on reading a chromatogram, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states.

2 likes in reply to #21 15mo
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l.salinasTL227 Apr 2025#26

Where the baseline is drawn is the least documented and most consequential choice in the whole determination. Valley-to-valley, tangent skim and forced-to-zero can span a couple of percentage points on the same chromatogram.

The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative.

0 likes 15mo
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a.reyesTL4 Admin30 Apr 2025#27

I read post #23 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

This is why a purity figure without the underlying chromatogram is weaker evidence than it appears. It is also why two competent laboratories can report different numbers on the same vial without either being wrong.

19 likes 15mo
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j.steinerTL22 May 2025#28

Taking reading a chromatogram seriously for a moment rather than deflecting: the honest position is that the community has observations and no controlled comparison, and those two things support very different sentences.

8 likes 15mo
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n.moreauTL25 May 2025#29

Before anything else: what was the gradient, and at what wavelength? Area percent at different wavelengths is not the same number even on the same sample because different species absorb differently at different wavelengths. With the method stated, I can tell you something useful. Without it, all I can say is that there is one large peak.

12 likes 15mo
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p.mbekiTL28 May 2025#30