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Revisiting: Moderation log format change posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

EN
electrolyte_notesTL2Regular17 Nov 2024#31
Isaksen, post #16: I would put moderate confidence on the mainstream reading of Moderation log format change and no more. That is not scepticism for its own sake; it is where the sourcing actually stops. Go to post

Feedback to announcements: if you have feedback on an announced change (not a question, but your position) post it in the Meta category rather than here.

0 likes in reply to #16 20mo
BD
b.dumitruTL218 Nov 2024#32

The rare case here is the one that costs somebody a week, though, and the common case costs everyone ten seconds. I think the trade is clearly correct.

2 likes 20mo
DM
d.moreauTL2Regular19 Nov 2024#33

The most useful reply I ever got about Moderation log format change was a request to state my units. It sounds like pedantry and it has saved me twice.

9 likes 20mo
YI
y.ibarraTL219 Nov 2024#34
y.adeyemi, post #10: Worth separating Moderation log format change as a question about the compound from Moderation log format change as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here. Go to post

Where I part company with post #30, and it is a narrow parting.

Practical question on the rollout: will it be visible that a topic was created before or after the change? Six months from now nobody will remember the date.

I would put this at better than even and not much better.

20 likes in reply to #10 20mo
AR
a.reyesTL4 Admin20 Nov 2024#35
Tavares, post #14: Post #12 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Noting appreciation rather than asking anything. Several years of unpaid work on something with no leaderboard and a public log of your mistakes is a peculiar thing to volunteer for. Not disagreeing with anyone above, just adding the bit I keep having to look… Go to post
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

Adding the measurement that post #32 says would settle it.

Announcement, with the reasoning rather than just the change. The behaviour described takes effect at the start of next month, it affects posting rather than reading, and nothing already posted changes. Objections belong in Meta and will be answered there.

Adding this to the thread rather than to the wiki, because I am not confident enough for the wiki.

0 likes in reply to #14 20mo
VK
v.kjaerTL221 Nov 2024#36

Feedback to announcements: if you have feedback on an announced change (not a question, but your position) post it in the Meta category rather than here.

5 likes 20mo
NT
nl_translatorTL2Translator · NL22 Nov 2024 · edited#37

The edit is clearer. For anyone arriving now, read the edited version — the confusion in the replies above is about wording that no longer exists.

13 likes 20mo
VB
v.bruunTL222 Nov 2024#38

Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating.

27 likes 20mo
PE
ppm_errorTL3Analytical chemist23 Nov 2024#39
eire_reader, post #28: Before the thread moves on from Moderation log format change — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred. Go to post

That is a fair summary of where the discussion has got to.

2 likes in reply to #28 20mo
AP
a.pereiraTL224 Nov 2024#40
v.bruun, post #38: Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating. Go to post

On post #37 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Noting appreciation rather than asking anything. Several years of unpaid work on something with no leaderboard and a public log of your mistakes is a peculiar thing to volunteer for.

I have separated what I observed from what I concluded, which does not always happen.

8 likes in reply to #38 20mo
TY
two_year_lineTL3Regular25 Nov 2024#41

Where the Moderation log format change discussion usually stalls is that nobody wants to say "I do not know" and everyone is willing to say "it varies". Those are the same sentence with different clothes on.

10 likes 20mo
SK
s.kuuselaTL226 Nov 2024 · edited#42
r.venkatesan, post #9: Nothing to add, except that this is the answer I would give if asked. Go to post

Narrowing post #40, because the general version has more than one answer.

Implementation timeline: announcements include when a change takes effect. Marking the date helps you know whether the change is already in effect.

I have no interest in any supplier named above.

3 likes in reply to #9 20mo
CL
coldchain_liuTL3Regular26 Nov 2024#43

The moderation log will carry the announcement entry, so the date is recoverable. It will not be visible on the topic itself, which is probably the right level of clutter.

0 likes 20mo
JI
j.iyerTL227 Nov 2024#44

That is a cleaner way of putting what I was circling around.

22 likes 20mo
RV
r.venkatesanTL3Wiki editor28 Nov 2024#45
citation_peak, post #24: Confirming post #21 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. The confident answers on Moderation log format change and the well-sourced answers are not the same answers, which is the most useful thing I have learned reading this category. Go to post

I read post #43 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

The bit of Moderation log format change that nobody enjoys is that the answer changes depending on what you are trying to decide with it. Say what the decision is and the thread will converge.

15 likes in reply to #24 20mo
KP
k.pereiraTL229 Nov 2024#46
Tavares, post #14: Post #12 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Noting appreciation rather than asking anything. Several years of unpaid work on something with no leaderboard and a public log of your mistakes is a peculiar thing to volunteer for. Not disagreeing with anyone above, just adding the bit I keep having to look… Go to post

Post #43 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

One question about the transition rather than the policy: what happens to topics that are in flight when it takes effect? The announcement is clear about posts and silent about drafts.

6 likes in reply to #14 20mo
JM
j.mwangiTL4 Moderator29 Nov 2024#47
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

Following up on the announcement above with the part people usually ask about first: no existing topic is affected, no existing post is edited, and nothing is removed. The change applies from the date forward only.

Reporting the observation and leaving the explanation open deliberately.

0 likes 20mo
AP
au.pereiraTL230 Nov 2024#48

Reading this as a member rather than staff: the change is sensible and the explanation is better than the change. Publishing the failure mode that prompted it is what makes it possible to argue with.

A qualification I should have led with rather than closed on.

30 likes 20mo
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist1 Dec 2024#49
electrolyte_notes, post #31: Feedback to announcements: if you have feedback on an announced change (not a question, but your position) post it in the Meta category rather than here. Go to post

Post #47 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Supportive, with one reservation worth stating in public: the change makes a common case slightly slower in exchange for making a rare case much better. That is usually right and it is not automatically right.

21 likes in reply to #31 20mo
CT
c.tullochTL21 Dec 2024#50

Reframing Moderation log format change slightly, because I think the disagreement is about the question rather than the answer. If the question is "does it happen", yes. If it is "how often", nobody here knows.

9 likes 20mo
AF
a.friskTL22 Dec 2024#51

The rare case here is the one that costs somebody a week, though, and the common case costs everyone ten seconds. I think the trade is clearly correct.

I would put a moderate confidence on that and no more.

16 likes 20mo
PM
p.mbekiTL23 Dec 2024#52

Coming back to post #48, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Careful with the language on Moderation log format change. "Not detected" and "not present" are different findings and the first is a statement about the method.

32 likes 20mo
NM
n.moreauTL24 Dec 2024 · edited#53

Two questions I would want answered before drawing anything from the Moderation log format change data above: how were the cases selected, and what happened to the ones that dropped out.

1 like 20mo
JN
j.nascimentoTL24 Dec 2024#54
l.chevalier, post #12: One question about the transition rather than the policy: what happens to topics that are in flight when it takes effect? The announcement is clear about posts and silent about drafts. Go to post

Helpful, and short, which on this subject is harder than long.

6 likes in reply to #12 20mo
CB
c.bakkerTL25 Dec 2024#55

Post #53 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Worth saying publicly: stepping back cleanly and handing over is a service. Documents with an absent maintainer go wrong quietly, which is the worst way for them to go wrong.

That is what the documentation says. What happens in practice is usually close.

11 likes 20mo
MB
m.brobergTL26 Dec 2024#56

I read post #52 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

I would keep Moderation log format change and the decision it usually gets used for separate in this thread. They are related and they are not the same question, and merging them is why the last one went badly.

24 likes 20mo
SL
s.leclercTL46 Dec 2024#57
MI
m.ibarraTL27 Dec 2024#58
s.ferreira, post #19: Adding the measurement that post #18 says would settle it. Thank you for announcing it in advance rather than after. The number of places that do the reverse is remarkable. I have left out the parts I could not verify. Go to post

Practical question on the rollout: will it be visible that a topic was created before or after the change? Six months from now nobody will remember the date.

Marking that as an opinion rather than a finding.

3 likes in reply to #19 20mo
NL
ne.laurentTL28 Dec 2024#59
r.venkatesan, post #45: I read post #43 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. The bit of Moderation log format change that nobody enjoys is that the answer changes depending on what you are trying to decide with it. Say what the decision is and the thread will converge. Go to post

Nothing to add on the substance. Thank you for taking the question at face value.

31 likes in reply to #45 20mo
BR
buffer_reviewTL3Regular9 Dec 2024#60

Noting appreciation rather than asking anything. Several years of unpaid work on something with no leaderboard and a public log of your mistakes is a peculiar thing to volunteer for.

0 likes 20mo