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Data & Tools · Calculators

Second pass at: The mass-error checker and its intended scope

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Solved by r.petrov in post #7
My understanding of mass-error checker is a few years old and may have been superseded. If it has been, I would genuinely like to know rather than keep repeating it.

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h.ramosTL213 Aug 2025#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Second pass at: The mass-error checker and its intended scope Everything below is what sits behind that.

Posting a small dataset on mass-error checker. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the method is stated so it can be discounted appropriately.

What I would like is not agreement but a second dataset collected by someone with no stake in mine. If one exists I would rather read it than argue for this one.

3 likes 11mo
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o.lindgrenTL2Regular16 Aug 2025#2

The opening post and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

A definition problem is doing most of the work in this mass-error checker discussion. Once the term is pinned down I suspect the disagreement mostly goes away and what is left is small.

7 likes 11mo
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n.vukovicTL219 Aug 2025#3
h.ramos, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Second pass at: The mass-error checker and its intended scope Everything below is what sits behind that. Posting a small dataset on mass-error checker. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the method is stated so it can be discounted appropriately. What I would like is not agreement but a… Go to post

Two sentences on mass-error checker and then I will stop, because the rest is speculation and the thread is better without mine.

What is documented is narrow. What is inferred from it is broad. The gap between them is where every argument here lives.

25 likes in reply to #1 11mo
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plateau_notesTL2Regular21 Aug 2025#4

No notes. Posting so the count is not one.

0 likes 11mo
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b.vanheckeTL224 Aug 2025#5

This follows post #3 rather than contradicting it.

A calculator that shows its working is worth ten that give an answer. The whole value is being able to see which step you disagree with.

That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct.

4 likes 11mo
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ppm_errorTL3Analytical chemist26 Aug 2025#6

The reason mass-error checker is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent.

12 likes 11mo
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r.petrovTL2 Solution28 Aug 2025#7
n.vukovic, post #3: Two sentences on mass-error checker and then I will stop, because the rest is speculation and the thread is better without mine. What is documented is narrow. What is inferred from it is broad. The gap between them is where every argument here lives. Go to post

My understanding of mass-error checker is a few years old and may have been superseded. If it has been, I would genuinely like to know rather than keep repeating it.

7 likes in reply to #3 11mo
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preregisteredTL3Research methods30 Aug 2025#8

Dose equivalence calculator: compounds have different potencies. The calculator is provided with a caveat: "equivalence" is not precise and individual response varies. It is a rough starting point, not a dose prescription.

0 likes 11mo
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a.nascimentoTL231 Aug 2025#9

Whatever the answer on mass-error checker turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction.

0 likes 11mo
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d.bramleyTL3Regular2 Sep 2025#10

Where I part company with post #6, and it is a narrow parting.

The version of mass-error checker that I was taught turned out to be a teaching simplification. Useful, and not true in the way I had assumed it was.

2 likes 11mo
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ar.petrovTL24 Sep 2025#11

Worth separating two things that post #9 runs together.

A saved calculation is worth more than a remembered one. Write down the inputs alongside the result, because the result alone is unverifiable a month later.

Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me.

25 likes 11mo
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r.scholtenTL2Member6 Sep 2025#12

Mass-error checker is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

11 likes 11mo
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g.verhoevenTL27 Sep 2025#13
preregistered, post #8: Dose equivalence calculator: compounds have different potencies. The calculator is provided with a caveat: "equivalence" is not precise and individual response varies. It is a rough starting point, not a dose prescription. Go to post

An update on my earlier mass-error checker post: the pattern held for another six weeks and then stopped, which I did not predict and cannot explain.

17 likes in reply to #8 11mo
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ZieglerTL3Regular9 Sep 2025#14
ppm_error, post #6: The reason mass-error checker is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent. Go to post

Post #13 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

The most common input error is entering the vial mass in the concentration field. It produces a plausible number, which is why it survives.

The claim is narrower than it sounds, and deliberately so.

7 likes in reply to #6 11mo
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o.nybergTL211 Sep 2025#15

Where I would push back on the mass-error checker consensus is the confidence, not the direction. The direction looks right. The confidence is borrowed.

1 like 11mo
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diluent_watchTL2Member12 Sep 2025#16

Nothing to add on the substance. Thank you for taking the question at face value.

0 likes 10mo
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z.vogelTL214 Sep 2025#17
g.verhoeven, post #13: An update on my earlier mass-error checker post: the pattern held for another six weeks and then stopped, which I did not predict and cannot explain. Go to post

Coming back to post #13, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

An honest declaration on mass-error checker: I have a prior here and it is strong enough that you should weight what I say downward. Stating it rather than hiding it.

23 likes in reply to #13 10mo
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WoodhouseTL2Member16 Sep 2025 · edited#18

Post #17 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

The calculators maintained on this site are open-source and verifiable. They are intended to check arithmetic, not to replace medical judgement. Using them is optional and they are provided for convenience.

I would not lead a decision with this, but I would not ignore it either.

11 likes 10mo
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ca.vermeulenTL217 Sep 2025#19
ppm_error, post #6: The reason mass-error checker is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent. Go to post

I think the mass-error checker question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

12 likes in reply to #6 10mo
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gradient_fileTL2Member19 Sep 2025#20

Adding a null result on mass-error checker. I looked, carefully, and found nothing, and null results deserve posting precisely because they never are.

4 likes 10mo
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b.wikstromTL220 Sep 2025#21

Adding the measurement that post #18 says would settle it.

Significant figures in the output should not exceed what the inputs support. A concentration calculated from a nominal vial mass is not known to four decimal places.

0 likes 10mo
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buffer_sheetTL3Regular22 Sep 2025#22

Mass-error checker came up in a thread eighteen months ago and was answered well. I cannot find it, which is itself the problem, so here is the reconstruction.

1 like 10mo
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p.dialloTL223 Sep 2025#23
h.ramos, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Second pass at: The mass-error checker and its intended scope Everything below is what sits behind that. Posting a small dataset on mass-error checker. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the method is stated so it can be discounted appropriately. What I would like is not agreement but a… Go to post

Thank you for the correction. I would rather find out here than later.

11 likes in reply to #1 10mo
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bench_entryTL3Regular25 Sep 2025#24
ppm_error, post #6: The reason mass-error checker is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent. Go to post

Unit-conversion tools are only as good as the assumption they make about the syringe. Ask what barrel and what graduation interval it assumed before trusting the units figure.

I have separated what I observed from what I concluded, which does not always happen.

25 likes in reply to #6 10mo
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r.ilungaTL226 Sep 2025#25

On mass-error checker I would separate what is worth knowing from what is worth acting on. The first list is long and the second is short, and conflating them is how threads get heated.

0 likes 10mo
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e.dalgleishTL3Regular27 Sep 2025#26

Reporting rather than recommending, on mass-error checker. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer.

4 likes 10mo
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f.lindholmTL229 Sep 2025#27

Mass error checking: enter your observed mass and theoretical mass and check whether the difference in ppm is within reasonable bounds for your instrument. Useful sanity check on LC-MS results.

A qualification I should have led with rather than closed on.

17 likes 10mo
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integrator_logTL3Regular30 Sep 2025#28
d.bramley, post #10: Where I part company with post #6, and it is a narrow parting. The version of mass-error checker that I was taught turned out to be a teaching simplification. Useful, and not true in the way I had assumed it was. Go to post

Where I part company with post #24, and it is a narrow parting.

The honest answer on mass-error checker is that it depends, and the useful part is the list of what it depends on. Four items, in rough order of how much they matter.

Most people get the first two right and then argue about the fourth.

33 likes in reply to #10 10mo
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c.marchettiTL22 Oct 2025#29

Precision and significant figures: the calculators do not round to match your input precision. If you input values to one decimal place, the output might have more. Use significant figures appropriate to your input precision.

Old habit: I write down the expected answer before I calculate it.

1 like 10mo
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MJayawardenaTL33 Oct 2025#30