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Sourcing · Independent verification

Turnaround times and what they mean for a decision — one year on

TV
t.vargaTL25 Sep 2024#1

On the subject in the title: Turnaround times and what they mean for a decision — one year on Working notes rather than a conclusion.

Reading back through what has been written here about Turnaround times, three questions come up every time and only one has ever been answered properly.

Listing all three, with what I think the state of the answer is for each, so the thread can start further along than the last one did.

0 likes 23mo
ZV
z.vogelTL215 Sep 2024#2

Repeat testing: if you want to verify the same lot a second time, testing with a different service strengthens the conclusion. Testing with the same service verifies reproducibility but uses the same method.

0 likes 22mo
GF
gradient_fileTL2Member22 Sep 2024#3

Narrowing post #2, because the general version has more than one answer.

The number people quote for Turnaround times is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own.

4 likes 22mo
FE
f.espinozaTL228 Sep 2024#4

Reading this Turnaround times thread as someone who came in with a fixed view: the third and seventh replies moved me and the confident ones did not.

12 likes 22mo
DI
diluent_indexTL1Member3 Oct 2024#5
z.vogel, post #2: Repeat testing: if you want to verify the same lot a second time, testing with a different service strengthens the conclusion. Testing with the same service verifies reproducibility but uses the same method. Go to post

The record shows what was measured. Everything beyond that is inference and this site tries to keep the line visible.

I have deliberately not rounded that, because the rounding is where the argument starts.

0 likes in reply to #2 22mo
SH
s.hartmannTL29 Oct 2024#6
f.espinoza, post #4: Reading this Turnaround times thread as someone who came in with a fixed view: the third and seventh replies moved me and the confident ones did not. Go to post

I would be cautious about generalising from the Turnaround times example above. It is a good example. It is one example.

1 like in reply to #4 22mo
M
MakinenTL2Member14 Oct 2024#7

Post #6 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Cost and turnaround: different services have different pricing and turnaround times. Janoshik's turnaround is weeks by mail; VendorInvestigate documentation review is usually faster than testing.

I have separated what I observed from what I concluded, which does not always happen.

7 likes 21mo
ON
o.nybergTL219 Oct 2024#8

I read post #4 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

What I would check first on Turnaround times is whether the thing being measured moved or whether the way of measuring it moved. Those look identical in a graph.

18 likes 21mo
EF
erratum_fileTL3Regular24 Oct 2024#9
gradient_file, post #3: Narrowing post #2, because the general version has more than one answer. The number people quote for Turnaround times is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own. Go to post

Picking up post #6: that is the part I would want checked first.

An observation about Turnaround times that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

0 likes in reply to #3 21mo
AK
an.kirchnerTL228 Oct 2024#10

Interpreting a result: a purity figure is one measurement on one vial on one day. Agreement across two services is much stronger. A single high number does not establish a pattern.

Adding this to the thread rather than to the wiki, because I am not confident enough for the wiki.

4 likes 21mo
JB
j.baptistaTL22 Nov 2024#11

Turnaround times came up in a thread eighteen months ago and was answered well. I cannot find it, which is itself the problem, so here is the reconstruction.

7 likes 21mo
CD
c.dahlbergTL26 Nov 2024#12

Post #11 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

I read the earlier replies on Turnaround times twice before writing this, because I had assumed the opposite and wanted to be sure I was disagreeing with what was said rather than what I expected.

1 like 21mo
LW
l.wikstromTL211 Nov 2024#13

Answering the question post #11 raises rather than the one it answers.

Repeat determination on the same product line months apart is the measurement that speaks to consistency, and consistency is what most buyers actually want.

One of those cases where knowing the mechanism does not help the decision.

0 likes 21mo
VN
v.nascimentoTL215 Nov 2024#14
t.varga, post #1: On the subject in the title: Turnaround times and what they mean for a decision — one year on Working notes rather than a conclusion. Reading back through what has been written here about Turnaround times, three questions come up every time and only one has ever been answered properly. Listing all three, with what I think the state of… Go to post

A record with four results over sixteen months is a thin record rather than a bad one, and the honest description says which.

17 likes in reply to #1 20mo
K
KLindqvistTL4 Moderator19 Nov 2024 · edited#15

Post #11 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Reporting rather than recommending, on Turnaround times. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer.

4 likes 20mo
FK
f.kimaniTL223 Nov 2024#16

Building on post #15 rather than restating it.

It does not extend to lots nobody has seen, it is not a recommendation, and it says nothing about anything other than what was measured.

Two people can read the same figure differently here and both be reasonable.

0 likes 20mo
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist27 Nov 2024#17

Cross-checking one lot with two services independently is the cleanest test available and is rarely done because it costs twice as much.

25 likes 20mo
JP
j.petrovTL21 Dec 2024#18
gradient_file, post #3: Narrowing post #2, because the general version has more than one answer. The number people quote for Turnaround times is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own. Go to post

The most useful reply I ever got about Turnaround times was a request to state my units. It sounds like pedantry and it has saved me twice.

12 likes in reply to #3 20mo
BD
baseline_driftTL2Analytical chemist5 Dec 2024#19

Second-hand on Turnaround times, so weight it accordingly — someone whose method I trust told me this and I have not verified it myself.

16 likes 20mo
NK
n.krastevTL29 Dec 2024#20

The record shows what was measured. Everything beyond that is inference and this site tries to keep the line visible.

6 likes 20mo
VT
vial_tableTL2Member13 Dec 2024 · edited#21

This follows post #20 rather than contradicting it.

The lot identifier has to match across vial, certificate and invoice for any of this to mean anything. It is the floor and it is worth checking every time.

3 likes 19mo
DV
d.vestergaardTL217 Dec 2024#22

Saving this. It is the version I will quote when the question comes round again.

11 likes 19mo
D
DOdendaalTL3Regular21 Dec 2024#23
gradient_file, post #3: Narrowing post #2, because the general version has more than one answer. The number people quote for Turnaround times is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own. Go to post

Worth separating Turnaround times as a question about the compound from Turnaround times as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here.

23 likes in reply to #3 19mo
CM
c.marchettiTL224 Dec 2024#24

Small correction to my own earlier position on Turnaround times. I had the units the wrong way round, which changes the conclusion by an order of magnitude and therefore changes it entirely.

0 likes 19mo
SF
sterile_fileTL3Regular28 Dec 2024#25

Repeat testing: if you want to verify the same lot a second time, testing with a different service strengthens the conclusion. Testing with the same service verifies reproducibility but uses the same method.

6 likes 19mo
LC
l.cabreraTL21 Jan 2025#26

Post #23 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

My experience of Turnaround times contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.

16 likes 19mo
AS
a.stephanopoulosTL3Regular4 Jan 2025#27
t.varga, post #1: On the subject in the title: Turnaround times and what they mean for a decision — one year on Working notes rather than a conclusion. Reading back through what has been written here about Turnaround times, three questions come up every time and only one has ever been answered properly. Listing all three, with what I think the state of… Go to post

On Turnaround times: the maintained page in the documentation commons covers the general case with citations and a review date, which is more reliable than any reply here including this one.

31 likes in reply to #1 19mo
FP
f.petrovTL28 Jan 2025#28

Repeat determination on the same product line months apart is the measurement that speaks to consistency, and consistency is what most buyers actually want.

Second-hand, so weight it accordingly.

0 likes 19mo
V
VPoulsenTL3Regular12 Jan 2025#29

I keep a log for Turnaround times specifically because my memory of it turned out to be systematically wrong in one direction. Six weeks of notes cost nothing and settled it.

10 likes 18mo
IW
i.wojcikTL215 Jan 2025#30
f.espinoza, post #4: Reading this Turnaround times thread as someone who came in with a fixed view: the third and seventh replies moved me and the confident ones did not. Go to post

Two things can be true about Turnaround times at once: the mechanism is plausible and the evidence for the size of the effect is thin. Most of the argument here is people defending the first against attacks on the second.

22 likes in reply to #4 18mo

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