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Analytics · Method validation · continued

Validating a method you did not develop — does this still hold? posts 61–90

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

PB
p.boatengTL21 Mar 2025#61
f.pires, post #36: Post #34 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Stability-indicating method: one that can separate a compound from its degradation products. Critical for assay methods that claim to measure actual degradation (as opposed to purity, which is orthogonal). Go to post

System suitability is the ongoing evidence that a validated method is still performing. Validation is done once; suitability is done every run, and it is the one that appears on a certificate.

Posting it because the silence on this was starting to look like agreement.

3 likes in reply to #36 17mo
AT
a.thorneTL2Wiki editor2 Mar 2025#62
k.pereira, post #23: A method transferred between laboratories needs a demonstration that it performs equivalently, not just a document describing it. Transfer is where a great many between-laboratory disagreements originate. The literature is thinner on this than the confidence in the thread implies. Go to post

A stability-indicating method is one demonstrated to resolve the analyte from its degradation products, usually through forced degradation. Calling a method stability-indicating without that work is a claim rather than a property.

0 likes in reply to #23 17mo
RC
r.chukwuTL22 Mar 2025 · edited#63

Worth separating two things that post #61 runs together.

Adding the boring version of Validating a method, because the interesting version keeps getting posted and the boring one is usually right.

Check the ordinary explanations, in order, and stop when one of them accounts for what you are seeing. Most of the time the second one does.

31 likes 17mo
CD
cohort_driftTL3Regular2 Mar 2025#64

This follows post #61 rather than contradicting it.

A method transferred between laboratories needs a demonstration that it performs equivalently, not just a document describing it. Transfer is where a great many between-laboratory disagreements originate.

Happy to expand any of that if it is the useful part.

0 likes 17mo
IB
i.balogunTL23 Mar 2025#65

Practical note on Validating a method: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow.

22 likes 17mo
TY
two_year_lineTL3Regular3 Mar 2025#66
b.vestergaard, post #32: Reporting a result to more decimal places than the method's precision supports is a small dishonesty that appears everywhere. A method with a two per cent relative standard deviation does not support a figure quoted to a hundredth. Go to post

Narrowing post #65, because the general version has more than one answer.

Where a pharmacopoeial monograph exists, a method that follows it inherits a great deal of assurance. Almost nothing discussed here has one.

10 likes in reply to #32 17mo
YA
y.adeyemiTL23 Mar 2025#67

Post #65 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

The distinction between a qualified instrument and a validated method is worth keeping. Both are needed and they fail in different ways.

I have left out the parts I could not verify.

3 likes 17mo
JR
j.rasmussenTL2Regular3 Mar 2025#68

Transfer between laboratories: a method can be transferred from one lab to another, but the receiving lab needs to demonstrate that they can achieve the same performance. This requires comparative testing and sometimes small method refinements.

It reads as pedantry until the day it does not.

0 likes 17mo
DF
d.ferreiraTL24 Mar 2025#69
ni.kravchenko, post #27: Stability-indicating method: one that can separate a compound from its degradation products. Critical for assay methods that claim to measure actual degradation (as opposed to purity, which is orthogonal). Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #65 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Range: the concentration range over which the method has been validated. Going outside the validated range is going outside the method's demonstrated performance.

0 likes in reply to #27 17mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician4 Mar 2025#70

The useful distinction on Validating a method is between what was measured and what was inferred from it. Both end up in the same sentence and only one of them has error bars.

33 likes 17mo
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l.salinasTL24 Mar 2025#71

A method that reports the same number for every lot is worth a second look. Real processes vary, and a total absence of variation is a statement about the measurement rather than the process.

24 likes 17mo
SL
s.leclercTL4 Moderator4 Mar 2025#72

Stability-indicating method: one that can separate a compound from its degradation products. Critical for assay methods that claim to measure actual degradation (as opposed to purity, which is orthogonal).

0 likes 17mo
BO
b.oseiTL25 Mar 2025 · edited#73

The most useful single question about a method: what would it fail to detect? Every method has an answer and few documents state it.

For what it is worth, the same held on the two occasions I checked.

1 like 17mo
AR
a.reyesTL4 Admin5 Mar 2025#74
b.petrov, post #14: Same experience here, different supplier, so it is at least not unique to one of them. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #70 runs together.

Since Validating a method keeps coming up, it should probably be a maintained page rather than a recurring thread. I am happy to draft it if someone with more direct experience will review it.

7 likes in reply to #14 17mo
EI
e.iyerTL25 Mar 2025#75
k.pereira, post #23: A method transferred between laboratories needs a demonstration that it performs equivalently, not just a document describing it. Transfer is where a great many between-laboratory disagreements originate. The literature is thinner on this than the confidence in the thread implies. Go to post

Post #72 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Checked the Validating a method claim against the primary source this morning. It survives, with a narrower scope than the version quoted here. Posting the narrower scope.

32 likes in reply to #23 17mo
DV
dr.villanuevaTL3Physician5 Mar 2025#76

A stability-indicating method is one demonstrated to resolve the analyte from its degradation products, usually through forced degradation. Calling a method stability-indicating without that work is a claim rather than a property.

0 likes 17mo
NS
n.silvaTL26 Mar 2025#77

Documented validation is what separates a number from an opinion expressed numerically. That is the whole reason to ask for the procedure identifier rather than the method name.

3 likes 17mo
MH
ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist6 Mar 2025#78
k.kuusela, post #6: Specificity is the first question: does the method separate the analyte from everything reasonably expected to be present? A method that has not been challenged with its own degradation products has not answered it. The mechanism is plausible, which is not the same as established. Go to post

Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating.

11 likes in reply to #6 17mo
B
BGiordanoTL2Member6 Mar 2025#79
n.stanescu, post #16: Where I part company with post #12, and it is a narrow parting. Validation is compound-specific and matrix-specific. A method validated for one peptide is a starting point for another and not a validated method for it. Go to post

Thank you for the correction. I would rather find out here than later.

1 like in reply to #16 17mo
BV
b.vestergaardTL26 Mar 2025 · edited#80

Where I part company with post #77, and it is a narrow parting.

The failure mode on Validating a method is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong.

7 likes 17mo
CR
crossover_reviewTL3Regular6 Mar 2025#81
a.mwangi, post #34: Post #30 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one. The limit of quantitation determines what the impurity table can honestly contain. Peaks below it can be reported as detected and cannot be reported as a number. Go to post

Answering the question post #80 raises rather than the one it answers.

Robustness: the method gives consistent results when minor parameters vary. Tested by deliberately varying pH, temperature, flow rate, and mobile phase composition within reasonable ranges and demonstrating that results stay within acceptance.

20 likes in reply to #34 17mo
JS
j.sandvikTL27 Mar 2025#82
n.stanescu, post #16: Where I part company with post #12, and it is a narrow parting. Validation is compound-specific and matrix-specific. A method validated for one peptide is a starting point for another and not a validated method for it. Go to post

That is a fair summary of where the discussion has got to.

8 likes in reply to #16 17mo
AT
a.thorneTL2Wiki editor7 Mar 2025#83

Precision and repeatability: within-run and between-run variability of the method. Acceptance criterion is typically a relative standard deviation of ≤2% for area measurements.

Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me.

0 likes 17mo
HF
h.friskTL27 Mar 2025#84

Post #83 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

System suitability is the ongoing evidence that a validated method is still performing. Validation is done once; suitability is done every run, and it is the one that appears on a certificate.

That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct.

0 likes 17mo
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IRenaudinTL2Member7 Mar 2025#85
m.eriksen, post #44: Specificity is the first question: does the method separate the analyte from everything reasonably expected to be present? A method that has not been challenged with its own degradation products has not answered it. Go to post

An independent laboratory's method being different from the supplier's is not a discrepancy. It becomes one only when the results differ by more than both methods' demonstrated precision.

27 likes in reply to #44 17mo
SC
s.chowdhuryTL3Regular8 Mar 2025#86
r.venkatesan, post #26: Where a pharmacopoeial monograph exists, a method that follows it inherits a great deal of assurance. Almost nothing discussed here has one. Go to post

Linearity across the working range is a routine demonstration and it constrains how far a result can be extrapolated. A method linear from 80 to 120 per cent of nominal says nothing about a sample at ten per cent.

I would not lead a decision with this, but I would not ignore it either.

13 likes in reply to #26 17mo
MM
methods_marginTL3Regular8 Mar 2025#87

Post #83 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

I read the earlier replies on Validating a method twice before writing this, because I had assumed the opposite and wanted to be sure I was disagreeing with what was said rather than what I expected.

2 likes 17mo
EB
e.bakkenTL28 Mar 2025 · edited#88

Building on post #87 rather than restating it.

Specificity is the first question: does the method separate the analyte from everything reasonably expected to be present? A method that has not been challenged with its own degradation products has not answered it.

0 likes 17mo
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NardoneTL2Member8 Mar 2025#89

Robustness testing deliberately varies the parameters most likely to drift — organic percentage, pH, temperature, flow — and shows the result does not. It is the part of validation that predicts whether a method will transfer.

Two sources, same conclusion, and I could not rule out that one copied the other.

0 likes 17mo
TV
t.vargaTL29 Mar 2025#90
f.pires, post #36: Post #34 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Stability-indicating method: one that can separate a compound from its degradation products. Critical for assay methods that claim to measure actual degradation (as opposed to purity, which is orthogonal). Go to post

Picking up post #87: that is the part I would want checked first.

Specificity: the method can distinguish the intended compound from related impurities and degradation products. Tested by comparing results on pure compounds, mixtures of compounds, and degraded samples.

I would hold that lightly until someone with a larger sample weighs in.

19 likes in reply to #36 17mo