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Evidence · Journal club

Journal club: how we handle discontinuation in obesity trials — what changed since

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Solved by i.ilunga in post #3
Answering the question the opening post raises rather than the one it answers. Where the group cannot agree, record the disagreement rather than resolving it by seniority. The recorded disagreement is more honest and more useful later.

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OV
o.vogelTL226 Jul 2025#1

Journal club: how we handle discontinuation in obesity trials — what changed since — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

Session topic: STEP 4 (JAMA, 2021). Please read it before posting; the discussion is much better when everyone has.

The question I would like us to start with is what the trial set out to estimate, rather than what it found. Once that is on the table we can talk about whether the design could have answered it, and only then about the numbers.

Specific things I would like covered: the population and how far it generalises, how discontinuation was handled, whether the comparator was a fair one, and what the absolute rather than relative effect looks like.

I will summarise at the end and the summary will feed the relevant digest page.

2 likes 12mo
FV
first_vialTL1Member9 Aug 2025#2

The most common failure mode is spending fifty minutes on the effect size and ten on the population. Reversing that ratio would improve most sessions.

This has been discussed before and I could not find the thread, so, again.

0 likes 12mo
II
i.ilungaTL2 Solution19 Aug 2025#3

Answering the question the opening post raises rather than the one it answers.

Where the group cannot agree, record the disagreement rather than resolving it by seniority. The recorded disagreement is more honest and more useful later.

22 likes 11mo
SL
sleep_logTL2Regular27 Aug 2025#4
o.vogel, post #1: Journal club: how we handle discontinuation in obesity trials — what changed since — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Session topic: STEP 4 ( JAMA , 2021). Please read it before posting; the discussion is much better when everyone has. The question I would like us to start with is what the trial set… Go to post

The arithmetic in post #3 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to.

10 likes in reply to #1 11mo
JB
j.bhattacharyaTL25 Sep 2025#5

Sessions on negative or null results are consistently the most instructive and the hardest to get anyone to attend.

I have left out the parts I could not verify.

3 likes 11mo
SC
s.chowdhuryTL3Regular12 Sep 2025#6

Adding thanks rather than a view. I do not have a view worth the space.

0 likes 10mo
AI
an.ibarraTL220 Sep 2025#7

Everything in post #3 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

The figures usually contain the finding and the text usually contains the interpretation. Separating them for the first twenty minutes is a discipline worth keeping.

30 likes 10mo
FN
formulary_notesTL3Regular27 Sep 2025#8
o.vogel, post #1: Journal club: how we handle discontinuation in obesity trials — what changed since — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Session topic: STEP 4 ( JAMA , 2021). Please read it before posting; the discussion is much better when everyone has. The question I would like us to start with is what the trial set… Go to post

The most common failure mode is spending fifty minutes on the effect size and ten on the population. Reversing that ratio would improve most sessions.

Second-hand, so weight it accordingly.

15 likes in reply to #1 10mo
MY
m.yildizTL23 Oct 2025#9

I had written a reply contradicting post #7 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Where the group cannot agree, record the disagreement rather than resolving it by seniority. The recorded disagreement is more honest and more useful later.

6 likes 10mo
LM
lyophil_marginTL3Regular10 Oct 2025#10

The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to.

1 like 10mo
B
BuchholzTL2Member17 Oct 2025#11

The arithmetic in post #8 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Sessions on negative or null results are consistently the most instructive and the hardest to get anyone to attend.

Nothing above should be read as advice about what anyone else should do.

23 likes 9mo
EK
ew.kuuselaTL223 Oct 2025#12
sleep_log, post #4: The arithmetic in post #3 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check. The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to. Go to post

Following, with nothing to contribute beyond having asked the same thing elsewhere.

0 likes in reply to #4 9mo
SS
s.stavrianosTL2Member29 Oct 2025#13
formulary_notes, post #8: The most common failure mode is spending fifty minutes on the effect size and ten on the population. Reversing that ratio would improve most sessions. Second-hand, so weight it accordingly. Go to post

Reading order that works for these sessions: registry entry, methods, baseline table, primary result, then abstract last. Reading the abstract first anchors everything that follows.

That distinction has done more work for me than anything else in this category.

1 like in reply to #8 9mo
GD
g.danquahTL24 Nov 2025#14

SURMOUNT-OSA (N Engl J Med 2024): Tirzepatide in obstructive sleep apnoea, using an objective physiological endpoint. Notable because soft endpoints are avoided. Two parallel trials addressed the confounder directly.

7 likes 9mo
KB
k.bettencourtTL210 Nov 2025#15
JS
j.solbergTL216 Nov 2025#16
sleep_log, post #4: The arithmetic in post #3 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check. The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to. Go to post

Answering the question post #14 raises rather than the one it answers.

Where the group cannot agree, record the disagreement rather than resolving it by seniority. The recorded disagreement is more honest and more useful later.

0 likes in reply to #4 8mo
TW
t.waldenstrmTL2Member22 Nov 2025#17

The most common failure mode is spending fifty minutes on the effect size and ten on the population. Reversing that ratio would improve most sessions.

I would rather say I do not know than round it up to an answer.

3 likes 8mo
TB
t.brandtTL228 Nov 2025 · edited#18

Reading order that works for these sessions: registry entry, methods, baseline table, primary result, then abstract last. Reading the abstract first anchors everything that follows.

That is all I can say without guessing.

11 likes 8mo
SE
septum_entryTL2Member3 Dec 2025#19

The baseline characteristics table is the single most useful page for the questions that get asked here, because it tells you who the result applies to.

Flagging that the sources on this are thinner than the confidence in the thread suggests.

0 likes 8mo

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