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Nutrition & Training · Protein & intake · continued

Meeting a protein target on a suppressed appetite — does this still hold? posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

OV
o.vogelTL21 Dec 2024 · edited#31

Protein sources: animal sources (meat, fish, eggs, dairy) are denser and easier to hit targets with. Plant sources require higher volume. Neither is nutritionally superior; volume and personal preference matter.

This is the sort of thing that ought to be settled and apparently is not.

3 likes 20mo
MD
m.duarteTL21 Dec 2024#32

Micronutrition alongside protein: eating protein foods that are also good sources of micronutrients (iron, B vitamins, zinc) solves two problems at once.

It cost nothing to check and would have cost something not to.

0 likes 20mo
NN
n.norgaardTL22 Dec 2024#33

I had written a reply contradicting post #29 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

What I would want before treating Meeting a protein target as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing.

30 likes 20mo
MS
m.stephanopoulosTL3Regular2 Dec 2024#34
n.achebe, post #27: Reading rather than contributing, but this is the most useful thread I have found on it. Go to post

Confirming post #33 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Maintenance changes the calculation and almost nobody revisits their target when they get there.

15 likes in reply to #27 20mo
BN
b.nwosuTL23 Dec 2024#35
RS
r.scholtenTL2Member4 Dec 2024#36

I came in to disagree and I am leaving without a disagreement.

0 likes 20mo
GV
g.verhoevenTL24 Dec 2024#37
t.verhoeven, post #5: My experience of Meeting a protein target contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that. Go to post

Coming back to post #33, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Adequate protein during a substantial deficit is the part of this conversation that gets least attention and probably deserves most.

Reading it back, the second half matters more than the first.

22 likes in reply to #5 20mo
Z
ZieglerTL3Regular5 Dec 2024#38
m.stephanopoulos, post #34: Confirming post #33 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. Maintenance changes the calculation and almost nobody revisits their target when they get there. Go to post

Fibre and fluid tend to fall alongside protein when intake drops, and the constipation reported here follows from that as much as from the mechanism.

This is the sort of thing the wiki should carry and currently does not.

10 likes in reply to #34 20mo
RA
r.aldana_pharmdTL4Pharmacist5 Dec 2024#39
e.dalgleish, post #11: Worth separating two things that post #8 runs together. Timing of protein: spreading protein intake across the day, with some at each meal, is more practical than trying to hit the whole target at one sitting on suppressed appetite. Go to post

Everything in post #37 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Distribution across the day appears to matter less than total for most outcomes, and it matters practically because a single large meal is harder when appetite is reduced.

0 likes in reply to #11 20mo
EV
e.vargaTL26 Dec 2024#40

Narrowing post #37, because the general version has more than one answer.

The reports here that describe what actually worked, in specifics, are far more useful than the ones stating a target.

31 likes 20mo
MS
m.stephanopoulosTL3Regular6 Dec 2024#41

Published guidance on protein during weight loss is reasonably consistent and is easy to find, which makes this one of the better-evidenced practical questions here.

27 likes 20mo
ZI
z.iyerTL27 Dec 2024#42
BP
baseline_peakTL2Member7 Dec 2024#43
t.verhoeven, post #5: My experience of Meeting a protein target contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that. Go to post

That is a fair summary of where the discussion has got to.

4 likes in reply to #5 20mo
JS
j.silvaTL28 Dec 2024#44

Post #40 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Protein supplements: whey, casein, and plant-based protein powders can help hit targets when whole-food intake is limited by appetite. Protein quality (all essential amino acids) matters more than form.

Adding a source would improve this post and I do not have one to hand.

13 likes 20mo
TS
taper_shiftTL3Regular8 Dec 2024 · edited#45

Post #44 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Where intake has fallen a long way, protein is usually the first thing to fall because it is the least appealing macronutrient when appetite is reduced.

0 likes 20mo
BJ
b.jansenTL29 Dec 2024#46
o.vogel, post #31: Protein sources: animal sources (meat, fish, eggs, dairy) are denser and easier to hit targets with. Plant sources require higher volume. Neither is nutritionally superior; volume and personal preference matter. This is the sort of thing that ought to be settled and apparently is not. Go to post

Liquid versus solid: protein in liquid form (shakes) is easier to consume in volume but might not be as satiating as solid food. Using both together can help.

0 likes in reply to #31 20mo
W
WickramasingheTL2Member9 Dec 2024#47

Timing of protein: spreading protein intake across the day, with some at each meal, is more practical than trying to hit the whole target at one sitting on suppressed appetite.

This has been discussed before and I could not find the thread, so, again.

8 likes 20mo
WM
w.moreauTL210 Dec 2024#48

Meeting protein targets on suppressed appetite: this is where the practical difficulty lies. Eating more protein when appetite is suppressed is genuinely hard. Front-loading the day, prioritising density over volume, and accepting this is a problem worth solving all help.

It is a small point and it changes the answer, which is an awkward combination.

19 likes 20mo
LA
l.aaltonenTL3Regular10 Dec 2024#49

Confirming post #46 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Nothing here is medical or dietetic advice, and a dietitian is the professional this subcategory most often recommends.

A modest claim, modestly supported.

14 likes 20mo
SM
so.mbekiTL211 Dec 2024#50
r.chukwu, post #29: Adding the measurement that post #28 says would settle it. Eating anything at all: on substantial appetite suppression, eating enough total calories to maintain lean mass is the priority. Protein comes second to total intake. Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #48 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Reframing Meeting a protein target slightly, because I think the disagreement is about the question rather than the answer. If the question is "does it happen", yes. If it is "how often", nobody here knows.

28 likes in reply to #29 20mo
IT
impurity_tableTL3Analytical chemist11 Dec 2024#51

The mechanism is not mysterious. Substantial energy restriction with inadequate protein and no resistance stimulus loses lean tissue as well as fat.

The right answer here may simply be that it has not been measured.

19 likes 20mo
HD
h.delgadoTL212 Dec 2024 · edited#52

A target that is not being met is worth adjusting downward to something achievable rather than being missed indefinitely.

8 likes 20mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician12 Dec 2024#53

Post #51 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Protein targets during weight loss: the standard recommendation is 1.6 to 2.2 grams per kilogram of body weight. Individual requirements vary but that range is a reasonable starting point.

0 likes 20mo
JM
j.moreauTL213 Dec 2024#54
s.grahame, post #17: I read post #15 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Adequate protein during a substantial deficit is the part of this conversation that gets least attention and probably deserves most. Go to post

Building on post #51 rather than restating it.

The question underneath Meeting a protein target is usually "how would I tell?" rather than "what is true?", and that one has a method attached to it.

Write down what you would expect to see under each hypothesis before you collect anything. If they predict the same observation, collecting it will not help.

0 likes in reply to #17 19mo
FD
f.demirTL2Regular13 Dec 2024#55
e.dalgleish, post #11: Worth separating two things that post #8 runs together. Timing of protein: spreading protein intake across the day, with some at each meal, is more practical than trying to hit the whole target at one sitting on suppressed appetite. Go to post

Renal considerations around higher protein intake apply to people with existing renal impairment and are frequently generalised beyond that population.

13 likes in reply to #11 19mo
MS
m.steinerTL214 Dec 2024#56

Thank you for the correction. I would rather find out here than later.

4 likes 19mo
RM
r.mcalisterTL3Regular14 Dec 2024#57

Post #55 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Where I have landed on Meeting a protein target, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it.

0 likes 19mo
AI
a.iyerTL215 Dec 2024#58

The practical problem is that appetite suppression makes hitting a target genuinely hard, and "eat more protein" ignores the actual constraint.

That is the honest state of it as of this week.

27 likes 19mo
DT
dexa_twice_yearlyTL3Regular15 Dec 2024 · edited#59
impurity_table, post #51: The mechanism is not mysterious. Substantial energy restriction with inadequate protein and no resistance stimulus loses lean tissue as well as fat. The right answer here may simply be that it has not been measured. Go to post

I read post #55 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Fibre: adequate fibre intake supports fullness and gut motility, both of which matter during the gastrointestinal effects of these compounds. High fibre on top of appetite suppression requires attention to hydration and gradual introduction.

That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct.

0 likes in reply to #51 19mo
RN
r.nakamuraTL216 Dec 2024#60

Post #59 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Micronutrient adequacy becomes a real question at very low total intake and is much less discussed than protein.

That holds for the case as described. Change the assumptions and it may not.

18 likes 19mo