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Sourcing · Vendor reports

Reporting a good result: why nobody bothers and why they should — one year on

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MM
m.malinowskiTL219 Oct 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Reporting a good result: why nobody bothers and why they should — one year on Everything below is what sits behind that.

The question about Reporting a good result that I actually want answered is the second one below. The first is context and I have kept it short.

Both are stated with units, and I have said what I already checked so that nobody repeats it.

14 likes 21mo
BJ
b.jansenTL227 Oct 2024#2

The opening post put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Blind submission is worth the extra effort. Have someone else relabel the sample so neither you nor the laboratory knows the origin until the result is back.

Not the answer, but possibly the question that gets there.

18 likes 21mo
BP
baseline_peakTL2Member2 Nov 2024#3

Narrowing the opening post, because the general version has more than one answer.

A difference inside method repeatability is not a disagreement. Saying so in your own report prevents somebody else reading it as one.

0 likes 21mo
BN
b.nwosuTL27 Nov 2024#4
Community wiki post. Any member at trust level 3 or above can edit this post; every edit is recorded. Last edited by coldchain_liu on 29 Mar 2025.
  • 29 Dec 2024 — np_gilmore: Removed a claim that the cited source did not support.
  • 29 Mar 2025 — coldchain_liu: Replaced an unsourced figure with the published one and cited it.
Editors: np_gilmore, coldchain_liu

Comparing your result to somebody else's on a different lot is not a comparison of suppliers. Lot is the unit and it should be in every report.

1 like 21mo
LA
l.aaltonenTL3Regular11 Nov 2024#5

Taking post #4 at face value and following it one step further.

Pattern across lots: a single result is a data point. Three or four results from the same supplier showing a consistent pattern becomes a record worth discussing. Two results that disagree might just be measurement variation.

12 likes 20mo
DN
d.ndiayeTL216 Nov 2024#6
b.nwosu, post #4: Comparing your result to somebody else's on a different lot is not a comparison of suppliers. Lot is the unit and it should be in every report. Go to post

Post #2 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Selective submission and selective reporting are the two easiest ways for a result to be shaped, and blinding addresses the first while a commitment to post addresses the second.

25 likes in reply to #4 20mo
W
WickramasingheTL2Member20 Nov 2024#7
m.malinowski, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Reporting a good result: why nobody bothers and why they should — one year on Everything below is what sits behind that. The question about Reporting a good result that I actually want answered is the second one below. The first is context and I have kept it short. Both are stated with units,… Go to post

An observation about Reporting a good result that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

0 likes in reply to #1 20mo
WM
w.moreauTL224 Nov 2024#8

Reporting a good result: I would want to see the raw numbers rather than the summary before agreeing. Summaries lose exactly the information that would settle this.

4 likes 20mo
EL
endpoint_lineTL3Regular28 Nov 2024#9
b.jansen, post #2: The opening post put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Blind submission is worth the extra effort. Have someone else relabel the sample so neither you nor the laboratory knows the origin until the result is back. Not the answer, but possibly the question that gets there. Go to post

This follows post #8 rather than contradicting it.

Reports of ordinary results are more valuable than reports of remarkable ones, precisely because only the remarkable ones get posted elsewhere.

17 likes in reply to #2 20mo
KK
k.karlsenTL22 Dec 2024#10
l.aaltonen, post #5: Taking post #4 at face value and following it one step further. Pattern across lots: a single result is a data point. Three or four results from the same supplier showing a consistent pattern becomes a record worth discussing. Two results that disagree might just be measurement variation. Go to post

Thank you — that answers what I came here to find out.

0 likes in reply to #5 20mo
DS
d.szymanskiTL3Wiki editor6 Dec 2024 · edited#11

Worth separating two things that post #9 runs together.

Where you submitted more than one vial from a consignment, say so. Intra-consignment comparison is one of the more useful things an individual can contribute.

0 likes 20mo
MM
m.mwangiTL210 Dec 2024#12

Say in advance that you will post the result whatever it says. It costs nothing and it is the difference between a record and a collection of the interesting cases.

22 likes 20mo
GT
g.tanakaTL3Regular13 Dec 2024#13

Disputed records: when a result disagreed and was not explained, the record says disputed and stays that way. We do not remove inconvenient history; we document it.

I would be glad to be shown a cleaner way of putting this.

10 likes 19mo
EA
e.adeyemiTL217 Dec 2024#14
b.nwosu, post #4: Comparing your result to somebody else's on a different lot is not a comparison of suppliers. Lot is the unit and it should be in every report. Go to post

Post #13 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Reporting a good result is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers.

3 likes in reply to #4 19mo
PR
policy_readerTL2Regular20 Dec 2024#15

Recording a reorder result against the original is one of the highest-value contributions here, because consistency over time is what a single result cannot show.

0 likes 19mo
AJ
a.jansenTL224 Dec 2024#16

The version of Reporting a good result that circulates here is a simplification of a simplification. It is not wrong, but it has lost the conditions under which it holds, and those conditions are where the interesting cases live.

29 likes 19mo
MD
m.dalgaardTL3Regular27 Dec 2024#17
k.karlsen, post #10: Thank you — that answers what I came here to find out. Go to post

Coming back to post #13, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Genuine question rather than a rhetorical one: has anyone here actually observed Reporting a good result, as opposed to read about it? The thread is long and I cannot tell.

15 likes in reply to #10 19mo
RM
r.mensaTL230 Dec 2024#18
Wickramasinghe, post #7: An observation about Reporting a good result that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private. Go to post

Bookmarking this. I will come back when I have something worth adding.

5 likes in reply to #7 19mo
JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular3 Jan 2025#19

Photograph the vial and the label before opening. It costs ten seconds and it is what turns a report into something checkable.

I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this.

0 likes 19mo
BC
b.correiaTL26 Jan 2025 · edited#20

Adding the measurement that post #17 says would settle it.

The format we ask for is compound, lot, testing service, method as reported, result, and the certificate figure for the same lot. A report missing any of those goes to the discussion rather than the record.

That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct.

0 likes 19mo
LA
l.aaltonenTL3Regular9 Jan 2025#21

This follows post #19 rather than contradicting it.

Do not adjust a reported figure. Post what the laboratory said and put your interpretation in a separate sentence.

I have seen it go both ways, which is why I hedge.

0 likes 19mo
SM
so.mbekiTL212 Jan 2025#22
endpoint_line, post #9: This follows post #8 rather than contradicting it. Reports of ordinary results are more valuable than reports of remarkable ones, precisely because only the remarkable ones get posted elsewhere. Go to post

Small correction to my own earlier position on Reporting a good result. I had the units the wrong way round, which changes the conclusion by an order of magnitude and therefore changes it entirely.

2 likes in reply to #9 18mo
HN
h.nicolaidesTL3Regular16 Jan 2025#23

Multiple services on one lot: agreement across two independent laboratories is stronger than a high number from one. Our vendor pages deliberately mix services for that reason.

The right answer here may simply be that it has not been measured.

13 likes 18mo
PO
p.onwukaTL219 Jan 2025#24

One lot is one lot. It becomes a pattern at three or four, and the record is built to show which of those you are looking at.

26 likes 18mo
TS
taper_shiftTL3Regular22 Jan 2025 · edited#25

Include the sample handling: how it was stored, how it travelled to the laboratory, how long it sat. A result on badly handled material is measuring the handling.

That is all the detail I have. Someone else will have more.

0 likes 18mo
BJ
b.jansenTL225 Jan 2025#26
g.tanaka, post #13: Disputed records: when a result disagreed and was not explained, the record says disputed and stays that way. We do not remove inconvenient history; we document it. I would be glad to be shown a cleaner way of putting this. Go to post

Where you have no independent result, a documentation report is still worth filing: what the certificate contained, what it omitted, and how fast a request was answered.

Someone will know this better than I do and I hope they say so.

4 likes in reply to #13 18mo
W
WickramasingheTL2Member28 Jan 2025#27
so.mbeki, post #22: Small correction to my own earlier position on Reporting a good result. I had the units the wrong way round, which changes the conclusion by an order of magnitude and therefore changes it entirely. Go to post

Lot matching: confirm the lot number on the certificate matches the lot number on the vial. A result from a different lot is not evidence about your vial.

18 likes in reply to #22 18mo
WM
w.moreauTL231 Jan 2025#28

Coming back to post #24, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Report the certificate figure alongside the independent one. The comparison is the point and it is the part most often omitted.

0 likes 18mo

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