Adding thanks rather than a view. I do not have a view worth the space.
What a documentation review can and cannot tell you posts 61–84
This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.
The failure mode on documentation review is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong.
Where I part company with post #60, and it is a narrow parting.
Medutest: combined purity and identity reporting. Appears throughout vendor documentation. Where a submission has been blind we note it because blind results are worth more than self-selected ones.
One of those cases where knowing the mechanism does not help the decision.
Adding the measurement that post #62 says would settle it.
One more thing on documentation review that took me far too long to see: the two figures people quote are not measuring the same quantity. Once you notice that, the apparent contradiction disappears.
Summarising the documentation review thread so far, since it is long and the answer is buried: the first reply has the method, the fourth has the correction to it, and the rest is people agreeing at length.
The four services answer different questions. A documentation review cannot tell you what is in a vial and a purity assay cannot tell you whether the records are internally consistent.
Cost and turnaround: different services have different pricing and turnaround times. Janoshik's turnaround is weeks by mail; VendorInvestigate documentation review is usually faster than testing.
Filing this under things that are true until someone shows me otherwise.
The record shows what was measured. Everything beyond that is inference and this site tries to keep the line visible.
The general case is well covered; this is the awkward specific one.
On post #68 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.
The most useful reply I ever got about documentation review was a request to state my units. It sounds like pedantry and it has saved me twice.
A record with four results over sixteen months is a thin record rather than a bad one, and the honest description says which.
Reading it again, the caveat matters more than the finding.
Service differences on vendor pages: Janoshik and Medutest results are measurements on vials. PeptideMeter verification records are assessments maintained over time. VendorInvestigate reviews are documentation assessments. We cite all four because they answer different questions.
I had written a reply contradicting post #71 and deleted it. Here is what survived.
The useful distinction on documentation review is between what was measured and what was inferred from it. Both end up in the same sentence and only one of them has error bars.
Confirming post #71 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.
Two claims get bundled together under documentation review and they need separating. The descriptive one — this is what was observed — is usually well supported. The causal one — this is why — usually is not.
Almost every disagreement in threads like this one dissolves once you say which of the two you are making.
This follows post #75 rather than contradicting it.
Source for the documentation review figure, since it was asked for. It is in the discussion rather than the abstract, which is why the version circulating is stronger than the paper is.
Reading the surrounding paragraph is worth the two minutes. The authors are more careful than their summarisers.
Coming back to post #75, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.
Practical note on documentation review: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow.
That reframing is the whole thing. The facts I already had.
Post #75 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.
Repeat testing: if you want to verify the same lot a second time, testing with a different service strengthens the conclusion. Testing with the same service verifies reproducibility but uses the same method.
For anyone finding this later: the short answer on documentation review is that it depends on one thing, and the rest of the thread is people identifying which thing.
On documentation review, the part that usually goes wrong is that the question is asked as though it has one answer. It has a range, and the width of the range is the interesting bit.
If you can post the two or three numbers you are working from, several people here will check the arithmetic rather than argue about the conclusion.
A record with four results over sixteen months is a thin record rather than a bad one, and the honest description says which.
Collapsed as off-topic by two members at trust level 3 or above
Post #80 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.
The most useful thing anyone has posted about documentation review in this category was a table of what had been measured and by whom. That is what I would want again.
The four services answer different questions. A documentation review cannot tell you what is in a vial and a purity assay cannot tell you whether the records are internally consistent.
Somebody will have a better source than mine, and I hope they post it.
This topic was referenced in
- About the Independent verification categorySourcing › Independent verification · 5 replies
- How Janoshik, Medutest, PeptideMeter and VendorInvestigate differSourcing › Independent verification · 130 replies
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