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Compounds · Other compounds · continued

When "no data" is the complete and final answer posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

CC
c.correiaTL230 Nov 2024#31

Second this, and I would have said it less carefully.

31 likes 20mo
RR
r.restrepoTL21 Dec 2024#32

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

16 likes 20mo
ML
m.lindqvistTL22 Dec 2024#33
c.correia, post #31: Second this, and I would have said it less carefully. Go to post

How to research a compound with no human data: mechanistic plausibility is one input. Preclinical data is another. The honest position is that you are reasoning from theory, not from evidence, and the track record of such reasoning is unimpressive when tested against actual outcomes.

I have changed my mind on this once already, so take it as current rather than settled.

6 likes in reply to #31 20mo
MM
m.malinowskiTL24 Dec 2024#34

Adding the measurement that post #33 says would settle it.

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

That has been true for the cases I have seen and I have not seen many.

1 like 20mo
AW
a.westergaardTL3Regular5 Dec 2024#35

A compound with no established assay is a compound where a certificate can say almost anything. That is not an accusation about anyone; it is a statement about what a document can carry.

23 likes 20mo
SO
sa.okonkwoTL27 Dec 2024#36

When "no data" is the complete and final answer: if there is no published human data on a compound, that is the state of knowledge. Hope is not a substitute and reasoning from theory is not a substitute. That is not a reason for shame; it is the honest epistemic position.

That holds under the stated conditions and I have stated them.

10 likes 20mo
JD
j.delacroixTL3Regular8 Dec 2024#37
pe.onwuka, post #3: Anything sold as a blend is two analytical problems and usually one number. A single purity figure for a two-component preparation does not tell you the ratio, and the ratio is the thing you cannot see. Go to post

On post #33 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

3 likes in reply to #3 20mo
RM
ra.mensaTL29 Dec 2024#38
OV
o.vukovicTL211 Dec 2024 · edited#39

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

I would be interested in a counterexample if anyone has one.

16 likes 20mo
SK
s.karlsen_rphTL3Pharmacist12 Dec 2024#40

Taking post #37 at face value and following it one step further.

Storage guidance for the less common material is usually copied from the incretin guidance and may not apply. Where the supplier has its own stability statement, that is the one to use.

Anyone who has looked at this more carefully, please correct the record.

6 likes 20mo
DY
d.yilmazTL214 Dec 2024 · edited#41

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

The uncertainty is in the assumption, not in the calculation.

21 likes 19mo
ZL
z.laurentTL215 Dec 2024#42

Worth separating two things that post #40 runs together.

A compound with no established assay is a compound where a certificate can say almost anything. That is not an accusation about anyone; it is a statement about what a document can carry.

I have said this before in a thread nobody could find, so it is worth repeating.

0 likes 19mo
CF
c.falkTL216 Dec 2024#43
pe.onwuka, post #3: Anything sold as a blend is two analytical problems and usually one number. A single purity figure for a two-component preparation does not tell you the ratio, and the ratio is the thing you cannot see. Go to post

Post #42 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

2 likes in reply to #3 19mo
AW
a.westergaardTL3Regular18 Dec 2024#44
k.adeyemi, post #12: Post #11 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here. Go to post

The honest summary for most of this subcategory: a plausible mechanism, animal data, and first-hand accounts. Saying so is more useful than assembling the accounts into something that reads like evidence.

9 likes in reply to #12 19mo
FL
f.laurentTL219 Dec 2024#45

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

I would want to see it done twice before believing it once.

29 likes 19mo
SE
septum_entryTL2Member20 Dec 2024#46

On analysis: unusual or modified sequences are exactly where a default reversed-phase method is least likely to be appropriate. A supplier that runs everything on one gradient will produce a flattering result for something.

A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none.

0 likes 19mo
AC
a.coelhoTL222 Dec 2024#47
a.westergaard, post #44: The honest summary for most of this subcategory: a plausible mechanism, animal data, and first-hand accounts. Saying so is more useful than assembling the accounts into something that reads like evidence. Go to post

Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half.

5 likes in reply to #44 19mo
CW
cohort_watchTL2Member23 Dec 2024#48

Coming back to post #44, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

14 likes 19mo
TB
t.brandtTL224 Dec 2024#49

Reading a supplier's product description as a marketing document: that is exactly what it is. The hyperbole, the mechanism written as fact, the theoretical benefits stated as established benefits — all of that is marketing. Treat it as such and separate it from evidence where evidence exists.

10 likes 19mo
KB
k.bettencourtTL2Member25 Dec 2024#50
s.salgado, post #26: Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide preparations are not peptides at all and the certificate conventions are completely different. Reading one as though it were a peptide certificate produces confusion in both directions. Go to post

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

22 likes in reply to #26 19mo
PN
plateau_notesTL2Regular27 Dec 2024#51

Noted, and I have changed what I was going to do on the strength of it.

14 likes 19mo
NV
n.vukovicTL228 Dec 2024#52
j.habermann, post #8: Where I part company with post #4, and it is a narrow parting. Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here. One more caveat and then I will stop qualifying: the sample selected itself. Go to post

Several compounds discussed here have no published human pharmacokinetics at all. That means half-life claims in circulation were derived from an animal model or from nothing.

The interesting part of this is the exception, and I do not understand the exception.

5 likes in reply to #8 19mo
AK
a.kowalczykTL2Regular29 Dec 2024#53
c.falk, post #43: Post #42 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here. Go to post

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

0 likes in reply to #43 19mo
CH
c.haddadTL231 Dec 2024 · edited#54

Anything sold as a blend is two analytical problems and usually one number. A single purity figure for a two-component preparation does not tell you the ratio, and the ratio is the thing you cannot see.

28 likes 19mo
KB
k.brandl_deTL3Translator · DE1 Jan 2025#55

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

The evidence for this is thinner than the way I have phrased it suggests.

9 likes 19mo
MA
m.almeidaTL22 Jan 2025#56

The honest summary for most of this subcategory: a plausible mechanism, animal data, and first-hand accounts. Saying so is more useful than assembling the accounts into something that reads like evidence.

2 likes 19mo
DB
d.bramleyTL3Regular3 Jan 2025#57
n.vukovic, post #52: Several compounds discussed here have no published human pharmacokinetics at all. That means half-life claims in circulation were derived from an animal model or from nothing. The interesting part of this is the exception, and I do not understand the exception. Go to post

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

0 likes in reply to #52 19mo
AN
a.nascimentoTL25 Jan 2025#58

Post #55 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Anyone submitting an unusual compound for testing should tell the laboratory what it is rather than what it is sold as. Method selection depends on the structure and the trade name may not identify it.

It is the sort of thing that seems obvious in retrospect and was not at the time.

21 likes 19mo
G
GEldridgeTL3Regular6 Jan 2025#59

The honest summary for most of this subcategory: a plausible mechanism, animal data, and first-hand accounts. Saying so is more useful than assembling the accounts into something that reads like evidence.

27 likes 19mo
AK
a.krastevTL27 Jan 2025#60

Thymosin alpha-1 has a regulatory history in several jurisdictions and a real clinical literature, which puts it in a different evidential category from most of its neighbours here.

13 likes 19mo