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Clinical · Special populations · continued

Older adults, sarcopenia risk, and the trade-off nobody quantifies posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

DB
d.bakkerTL214 Nov 2025#31
q.zhao_qa, post #22: Narrowing post #19, because the general version has more than one answer. Being outside the studied population does not mean a treatment is unsafe. It means the usual evidence is not available and the reasoning has to be explicit. The literature is thinner on this than the confidence in the thread implies. Go to post

Post #30 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

On older adults I would separate what is worth knowing from what is worth acting on. The first list is long and the second is short, and conflating them is how threads get heated.

1 like in reply to #22 8mo
PM
p.marchettiTL215 Nov 2025#32

Being outside the studied population does not mean a treatment is unsafe. It means the usual evidence is not available and the reasoning has to be explicit.

Somebody will have a better source than mine, and I hope they post it.

6 likes 8mo
BF
b.fonsecaTL217 Nov 2025#33
AA
a.adebayoTL218 Nov 2025#34

On post #32 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Adolescents: a distinct evidence base exists. The compounds are not approved for routine adolescent obesity but are being studied. Adolescent physiology and psychology differ from adults' in ways that matter for this medication class.

0 likes 8mo
MS
m.stephanopoulosTL3Regular20 Nov 2025#35

Post #34 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

What I can speak to on older adults is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know.

2 likes 8mo
ZI
z.iyerTL221 Nov 2025#36
k.redgrave, post #30: On older adults: the maintained page in the documentation commons covers the general case with citations and a review date, which is more reliable than any reply here including this one. Go to post

I read post #32 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

The most useful contribution here is usually a citation to whichever published document comes closest, with a plain statement of how far it is from the question.

Reading it again, the caveat matters more than the finding.

9 likes in reply to #30 8mo
RG
r.girardTL223 Nov 2025#37
a.thorne, post #3: Extrapolating a point estimate to somebody well outside the enrolled range should be described as an extrapolation every time it is done. This is the version I would want a new member to read first. Go to post

That is the distinction I keep failing to hold on to. Written down now.

29 likes in reply to #3 8mo
CS
c.silvaTL224 Nov 2025#38

Counterpoint on older adults, offered without confidence: the same observation is consistent with a much duller explanation, and nobody has ruled the dull one out.

0 likes 8mo
RZ
r.zielinskiTL226 Nov 2025#39

Adding a note of thanks rather than an opinion. I did not know most of that.

5 likes 8mo
LG
lc_gradientTL3Analytical chemist27 Nov 2025#40

Where I part company with post #36, and it is a narrow parting.

The arithmetic on older adults is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it.

14 likes 8mo
AP
ar.petrovTL229 Nov 2025#41

Adolescents: a distinct evidence base exists. The compounds are not approved for routine adolescent obesity but are being studied. Adolescent physiology and psychology differ from adults' in ways that matter for this medication class.

That is one dataset and I would not build a rule on it.

17 likes 8mo
RS
r.scholtenTL2Member30 Nov 2025#42

Reading this older adults thread as someone who came in with a fixed view: the third and seventh replies moved me and the confident ones did not.

23 likes 8mo
NN
n.norgaardTL22 Dec 2025#43
v.rautio, post #19: I would keep older adults and the decision it usually gets used for separate in this thread. They are related and they are not the same question, and merging them is why the last one went badly. Go to post

Where I part company with post #41, and it is a narrow parting.

Extrapolating a point estimate to somebody well outside the enrolled range should be described as an extrapolation every time it is done.

11 likes in reply to #19 8mo
FF
f.fenwickTL33 Dec 2025#44
OV
o.vogelTL25 Dec 2025#45

I have been on both sides of the older adults argument in this category within eighteen months, which should tell you how strong the evidence for either side is.

11 likes 8mo
MD
m.duarteTL26 Dec 2025#46

Right — I had this wrong and I am glad to have read it before it mattered.

3 likes 8mo
RD
r.danquahTL27 Dec 2025#47

Older adults were included in the trials in smaller numbers than their share of the eventual population, so precision in that subgroup is poor.

I would hold that lightly until someone with a larger sample weighs in.

0 likes 8mo
RV
r.villalobosTL29 Dec 2025 · edited#48
g.radich, post #6: Fair, and the limits you put on it are the part I will remember. Go to post

Confirming post #45 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Post-surgical populations, particularly after procedures affecting the gastrointestinal tract, interact with a delayed-emptying mechanism in ways that need specialist input.

That is the practical version. The rigorous version is longer and says the same thing.

33 likes in reply to #6 8mo
AB
a.batistaTL210 Dec 2025#49
AN
a.nwosuTL212 Dec 2025#50
r.villalobos, post #48: Confirming post #45 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. Post-surgical populations, particularly after procedures affecting the gastrointestinal tract, interact with a delayed-emptying mechanism in ways that need specialist input. That is the practical version. The rigorous version is longer… Go to post

Narrowing post #48, because the general version has more than one answer.

What I want from this older adults thread is the list of things that would need to be true for the claim to hold. If we can write that list, we can check it.

0 likes in reply to #48 8mo
KO
k.otieno_statsTL3Statistician13 Dec 2025#51

Genetic and ancestry-related differences in response are asked about regularly and the published evidence is thin enough that the honest answer is short.

That has held every time I have looked, which is not the same as always.

0 likes 7mo
SB
s.balogunTL214 Dec 2025#52

This is the answer, and the reason it is the answer is the more useful part.

4 likes 7mo
SS
system_suitabilityTL3Analytical chemist16 Dec 2025#53
m.stephanopoulos, post #35: Post #34 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. What I can speak to on older adults is narrow, so I will keep it narrow rather than generalising from it. Beyond that boundary I do not know. Go to post

Filing a mild objection to the consensus on older adults. Mild because I might be wrong; an objection because nobody has addressed the case that does not fit.

12 likes in reply to #35 7mo
NI
n.ibarraTL217 Dec 2025 · edited#54

Where I part company with post #50, and it is a narrow parting.

Older adults was covered in the wiki last year and the page has a review date on it, which is a better starting point than my memory of a thread.

25 likes 7mo
PI
p.iyer_pharmdTL3Pharmacist18 Dec 2025#55

Body weight at the extremes of the studied range affects exposure and the trials rarely reported enough to say by how much.

That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct.

0 likes 7mo
ZO
z.okonkwoTL220 Dec 2025#56

Older adults: sarcopenia risk is higher, polypharmacy is common, and the clinical trials did not enroll many people over 75. Extrapolating to very old people is extrapolating beyond the data.

1 like 7mo
HS
hana.satoTL4 Moderator21 Dec 2025#57
f.fenwick, post #44: Post #41 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. Whatever the answer on older adults turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction. Go to post

Confirming post #56 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Practical experience of older adults, offered as one case with the conditions stated, not as a general finding. Conditions first, because they are what make it interpretable.

0 likes in reply to #44 7mo
JA
j.asanteTL222 Dec 2025#58
hana.sato, post #57: Confirming post #56 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person. Practical experience of older adults, offered as one case with the conditions stated, not as a general finding. Conditions first, because they are what make it interpretable. Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #54 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Nothing in this subcategory is medical advice and the questions asked here are precisely the ones that need an individual assessment.

The answer changed when I changed how I was measuring, which was informative.

4 likes in reply to #57 7mo
VF
v.fontaineTL224 Dec 2025#59

Post #56 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

The reason older adults is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent.

3 likes 7mo
AA
a.aguirreTL225 Dec 2025#60
c.chowdhury, post #8: Post #7 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Post-surgical populations, particularly after procedures affecting the gastrointestinal tract, interact with a delayed-emptying mechanism in ways that need specialist input. Go to post

I read post #58 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Body weight at the extremes of the studied range affects exposure and the trials rarely reported enough to say by how much.

11 likes in reply to #8 7mo