The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Evidence · Meta-analyses · continued

Random versus fixed effects: choosing rather than defaulting — a second dataset posts 91–107

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

TB
t.batistaTL211 Feb 2025#91
c.silva, post #59: Where I part company with post #55, and it is a narrow parting. Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified. I have no interest in any supplier named above. Go to post

Nothing to add, except that this is the answer I would give if asked.

27 likes in reply to #59 18mo
I
IsaksenTL3Regular11 Feb 2025#92

Two sentences on Random versus fixed effects and then I will stop, because the rest is speculation and the thread is better without mine.

What is documented is narrow. What is inferred from it is broad. The gap between them is where every argument here lives.

13 likes 18mo
MN
m.ndiayeTL211 Feb 2025#93

Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random.

2 likes 18mo
BP
bench_peakTL3Regular11 Feb 2025#94

Where the pooled result and the largest single trial disagree, that disagreement is the interesting thing rather than an inconvenience to be smoothed.

That has been true for the cases I have seen and I have not seen many.

0 likes 18mo
HC
h.castellanosTL211 Feb 2025#95
e.varga, post #52: Double extraction with disagreement resolution is standard and is worth checking for, because single extraction errors are common and non-random. A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none. Go to post

Everything in post #92 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Random versus fixed effects was covered in the wiki last year and the page has a review date on it, which is a better starting point than my memory of a thread.

0 likes in reply to #52 18mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician11 Feb 2025 · edited#96

Narrowing post #95, because the general version has more than one answer.

The I-squared statistic describes the proportion of variability not attributable to chance and is frequently read as a threshold. It is a description rather than a test.

Written from notes rather than memory, which is why the numbers are specific.

19 likes 18mo
TI
t.ibarraTL212 Feb 2025#97

The number people quote for Random versus fixed effects is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own.

4 likes 17mo
K
KStephanopoulosTL3Regular12 Feb 2025#98

I would be cautious about generalising from the Random versus fixed effects example above. It is a good example. It is one example.

0 likes 17mo
IN
i.norgaardTL212 Feb 2025 · edited#99

Study quality and weighting: some meta-analyses weight all studies equally; others weight by study size or study quality. The choice affects the result and should be stated and justified.

The general answer and the answer for your case may diverge here.

0 likes 17mo
CR
compounding_ruthTL4Pharmacist12 Feb 2025#100

Marking my place. If it changes for me I will come back and say so.

26 likes 17mo
AS
a.silvaTL212 Feb 2025#101
ca.vermeulen, post #19: Worth separating two things that post #15 runs together. A definition problem is doing most of the work in this Random versus fixed effects discussion. Once the term is pinned down I suspect the disagreement mostly goes away and what is left is small. Go to post

Random versus fixed effects looks different depending on whether you are reading the primary literature or the summaries of it, and the difference is not in our favour.

8 likes in reply to #19 17mo
P
PSkarbekTL3Regular12 Feb 2025#102
t.ibarra, post #97: The number people quote for Random versus fixed effects is a central estimate presented without its interval, and the interval is wide enough that the estimate is nearly uninformative on its own. Go to post

Narrowing post #99, because the general version has more than one answer.

I would keep Random versus fixed effects and the decision it usually gets used for separate in this thread. They are related and they are not the same question, and merging them is why the last one went badly.

1 like in reply to #97 17mo
KH
k.haddadTL212 Feb 2025#103

Post #99 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Quality assessment of included trials should change the analysis rather than sit beside it. A sensitivity analysis excluding the weakest studies is the minimum.

I would rather say I do not know than round it up to an answer.

0 likes 17mo
BM
buffer_marginTL3Regular13 Feb 2025#104

Individual participant data pooling is a much stronger design than aggregate pooling and is rare because it requires cooperation rather than a search.

The conclusion is tentative; the arithmetic underneath it is not.

18 likes 17mo
AH
a.hartmannTL213 Feb 2025#105
Okafor, post #31: Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating. Go to post

An honest declaration on Random versus fixed effects: I have a prior here and it is strong enough that you should weight what I say downward. Stating it rather than hiding it.

4 likes in reply to #31 17mo
EC
excursion_checkTL3Regular13 Feb 2025#106

Random versus fixed effects is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

0 likes 17mo
SV
s.vanheckeTL213 Feb 2025#107

Where I part company with post #103, and it is a narrow parting.

High heterogeneity is the finding rather than a nuisance to be minimised. If the effect genuinely differs across settings, an average of those settings is an average of things that should not have been averaged.

27 likes 17mo
Moved from Preprints by s.leclerc. Category placement is not obvious from outside and getting it wrong is expected. This topic will get better answers here. The move is recorded in the public log citing R7.

Suggested topics

TopicParticipantsRepliesViewsActivity
What pooling buys you and what it destroys
The question in the title: What pooling buys you and what it destroys I will give what I have already checked below so nobody repeats it. The question about pooling buys that I actually want answered is the…
MDEHDHPMNA+74 83 6.6k 8mo
Second pass at: A pooled estimate that changed when one trial was added
On the subject in the title: Second pass at: A pooled estimate that changed when one trial was added Working notes rather than a conclusion. Two things I would like separated before anyone answers on pooled…
FLSTYAWNRM+26 30 22k 1mo
Pooling trials with different estimands — what changed since
Pooling trials with different estimands — what changed since — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. What changes if the standard account of Pooling trials with different…
BERRMLDYAW+57 64 12k 7mo
Publication bias detection and its low power
On the subject in the title: Publication bias detection and its low power Working notes rather than a conclusion. Working notes on publication bias detection rather than a conclusion. I would rather post the…
MAZLKK 2 3.2k 1d
Prediction intervals and why they are more honest than confidence intervals
Posting this under the heading it deserves: Prediction intervals and why they are more honest than confidence intervals Everything below is what sits behind that. I have spent a fortnight trying to pin…
DBWSRMON+21 25 46k 4mo

Related topics — sharing the tags heterogeneity, risk of bias, publication bias

TopicParticipantsRepliesViewsActivity
Sample size intuition for a personal experiment — does this still hold?
Sample size intuition for a personal experiment — does this still hold? I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below. Reading back through what has been written…
AWMSNVBIFA+33 38 26k 23d
What a confidence interval means, from scratch
What a confidence interval means, from scratch — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. Asking about confidence interval directly, because I have read four…
MHSNO 2 2.6k 2mo
Correlation in a self-tracked dataset: what it can support
Correlation in a self-tracked dataset: what it can support — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Posting a small dataset on correlation. It is mine, it is uncontrolled, and the…
IDMYLMEKN+152 166 48k 23mo
Journal club: STEP 4 and what a withdrawal design can prove — one year on
Journal club: STEP 4 and what a withdrawal design can prove — one year on Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. Session topic: STEP 4 ( JAMA , 2021). Please read…
TDSVOFSOCT+56 62 34k 15mo
Coming back to: A critique that turned out to be unfair, retracted by its author
A critique that turned out to be unfair, retracted by its author — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Reading back through what has been written here about critique, three…
IAQLJB 2 1.3k 14mo