The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Analytics · Mass spectrometry

Reading an MS report that only gives you a single number

BD
b.demirTL224 Jan 2025#1

On the subject in the title: Reading an MS report that only gives you a single number Working notes rather than a conclusion.

I would like to understand what this number means before I repeat it anywhere.

A VendorInvestigate report on a tirzepatide lot gives 97.1% purity. The supplier certificate for the same lot states 97.6%. Both documents name a reversed-phase method; neither states the same gradient.

My question is not "who is right". It is: given that those two figures were produced by different methods, what is the largest difference I should expect from method alone, and at what point does a gap stop being explainable that way?

7 likes 18mo
SB
s.bergstromTL227 Jan 2025#2

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

11 likes 18mo
CD
cannula_driftTL3Regular30 Jan 2025#3

Appreciated. The plain phrasing does more work here than a longer post would.

24 likes 18mo
AM
a.mwangiTL21 Feb 2025#4

The opening post and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

Speaking for myself and not for anyone else who has posted here.

0 likes 18mo
BR
buffer_reviewTL3Regular4 Feb 2025 · edited#5

Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible.

1 like 18mo
SV
sa.vogelTL26 Feb 2025#6
buffer_review, post #5: Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible. Go to post

Adducts — sodium and potassium especially — shift the observed mass in predictable increments. A report showing an unexplained plus twenty-two is usually showing you a sodium adduct.

7 likes in reply to #5 18mo
L
LJankowiakTL3Regular8 Feb 2025#7

Building on post #6 rather than restating it.

Tandem mass spectrometry with fragmentation gives sequence information that intact mass cannot. It is the analysis that would actually confirm identity, and it is rarely supplied.

I am reporting what happened, not recommending it.

17 likes 18mo
AC
a.cardosoTL210 Feb 2025#8

Positional isomers and epimers are mass-identical. Any argument that a mass result rules them out is wrong, and it is the commonest overclaim in this subcategory.

0 likes 18mo
FT
fr.translation_moTL2Translator · FR12 Feb 2025#9

The honest summary of what a mass result buys you: it narrows the field of what the material could be, considerably. It never closes it, and no certificate should be read as though it had.

I would rather be precise about what I do not know than vague about what I do.

10 likes 17mo
EN
e.nilsenTL213 Feb 2025#10
sa.vogel, post #6: Adducts — sodium and potassium especially — shift the observed mass in predictable increments. A report showing an unexplained plus twenty-two is usually showing you a sodium adduct. Go to post

Answering the question post #8 raises rather than the one it answers.

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

Filing this under things that are true until someone shows me otherwise.

23 likes in reply to #6 17mo
HB
h.brandtTL215 Feb 2025#11
sa.vogel, post #6: Adducts — sodium and potassium especially — shift the observed mass in predictable increments. A report showing an unexplained plus twenty-two is usually showing you a sodium adduct. Go to post

Useful. I have added it to my own notes with the date on it.

8 likes in reply to #6 17mo
RV
r.venkatesanTL3Wiki editor17 Feb 2025#12

Positional isomers and epimers are mass-identical. Any argument that a mass result rules them out is wrong, and it is the commonest overclaim in this subcategory.

2 likes 17mo
PT
p.trevinoTL218 Feb 2025#13

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

0 likes 17mo
IS
isotonic_sheetTL3Regular20 Feb 2025#14

An acylated peptide has a mass that reflects the modification, so comparing against the mass of the unmodified backbone gives a mismatch that is not an error.

19 likes 17mo
GR
g.radichTL222 Feb 2025#15

Post #12 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

That is the honest state of it as of this week.

13 likes 17mo
TY
two_year_lineTL3Regular23 Feb 2025 · edited#16

Adding the measurement that post #15 says would settle it.

Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible.

The reasoning is more useful than the number, which is why I have shown it.

4 likes 17mo
YA
y.adeyemiTL225 Feb 2025#17

The honest summary of what a mass result buys you: it narrows the field of what the material could be, considerably. It never closes it, and no certificate should be read as though it had.

I would put a moderate confidence on that and no more.

0 likes 17mo
MM
maintenance_modeTL3Regular27 Feb 2025#18
r.venkatesan, post #12: Positional isomers and epimers are mass-identical. Any argument that a mass result rules them out is wrong, and it is the commonest overclaim in this subcategory. Go to post

Electrospray on a peptide of this size gives a multiply charged series rather than a single ion. Seeing only one charge state usually means the deconvolution has already been done for you, which is worth knowing.

27 likes in reply to #12 17mo
DF
d.ferreiraTL228 Feb 2025#19

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

19 likes 17mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician2 Mar 2025#20

I will take the caveat as seriously as the claim, which is the point of putting it there.

8 likes 17mo
RO
r.oyelaranTL23 Mar 2025#21

Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half.

9 likes 17mo
JH
j.habermannTL3Regular5 Mar 2025#22
isotonic_sheet, post #14: An acylated peptide has a mass that reflects the modification, so comparing against the mass of the unmodified backbone gives a mismatch that is not an error. Go to post

Coming back to post #18, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Electrospray on a peptide of this size gives a multiply charged series rather than a single ion. Seeing only one charge state usually means the deconvolution has already been done for you, which is worth knowing.

21 likes in reply to #14 17mo
DN
d.nwosuTL26 Mar 2025#23

Resolution and mass accuracy are different specifications. An instrument can resolve two species and still assign their masses imprecisely, and the reverse is also possible.

A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none.

0 likes 17mo
EM
e.mikkelsenTL2Member7 Mar 2025 · edited#24

The honest summary of what a mass result buys you: it narrows the field of what the material could be, considerably. It never closes it, and no certificate should be read as though it had.

Posted with less confidence than the sentence structure implies.

1 like 17mo
AA
a.amankwahTL29 Mar 2025#25
p.trevino, post #13: Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

Confirming post #24 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

6 likes in reply to #13 17mo
LM
lyophil_marginTL3Regular10 Mar 2025#26
d.ferreira, post #19: Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation. Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #22 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Positional isomers and epimers are mass-identical. Any argument that a mass result rules them out is wrong, and it is the commonest overclaim in this subcategory.

The uncertainty is in the assumption, not in the calculation.

15 likes in reply to #19 17mo
CB
c.balogunTL212 Mar 2025#27

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

I have said this before in a thread nobody could find, so it is worth repeating.

30 likes 17mo
KF
k.farrugiaTL3Regular13 Mar 2025#28

Adducts — sodium and potassium especially — shift the observed mass in predictable increments. A report showing an unexplained plus twenty-two is usually showing you a sodium adduct.

0 likes 17mo
IR
i.rasmussenTL215 Mar 2025#29

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

I would put this at better than even and not much better.

3 likes 16mo
V
VThorvaldsenTL3Regular16 Mar 2025#30

Noted, and I have changed what I was going to do on the strength of it.

10 likes 16mo