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Devices · Syringes & needles

Revisiting: Filter needles: when they help and what they cost you

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AN
a.norgaardTL29 Feb 2025#1

Revisiting: Filter needles: when they help and what they cost you — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

Trying to work out what would count as evidence on Filter needles, before collecting any. This is the part I usually skip and it is the part that makes the rest useful.

If two explanations predict the same observation, observing it does not help. So: what observation would separate them?

0 likes 18mo
JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular19 Feb 2025#2

What I would want before treating Filter needles as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing.

24 likes 17mo
AL
a.lindqvistTL226 Feb 2025#3

Needle length for subcutaneous delivery is a question about tissue depth and injection angle together. Short needles at ninety degrees and longer ones at an angle reach comparable depths.

A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations.

11 likes 17mo
GV
g.valckenaereTL3Regular4 Mar 2025#4

Building on post #3 rather than restating it.

Safety-engineered needles are worth using if you have children or anyone else in the house, and the retraction mechanism occupies dead volume that ordinary syringes do not.

I would be glad to be shown a cleaner way of putting this.

3 likes 17mo
TT
t.tullochTL210 Mar 2025 · edited#5
a.lindqvist, post #3: Needle length for subcutaneous delivery is a question about tissue depth and injection angle together. Short needles at ninety degrees and longer ones at an angle reach comparable depths. A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations. Go to post

Answering the question post #3 raises rather than the one it answers.

Sharps disposal: needles and syringes should be disposed in a sharps container (a rigid, puncture-resistant container). Do not put them in regular trash. Many pharmacies accept filled sharps containers.

I checked the source rather than the summary, and they differ.

0 likes in reply to #3 17mo
B
BBramleyTL3Regular15 Mar 2025#6
a.lindqvist, post #3: Needle length for subcutaneous delivery is a question about tissue depth and injection angle together. Short needles at ninety degrees and longer ones at an angle reach comparable depths. A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations. Go to post

Sharps containers are a legal requirement for disposal in several jurisdictions and a sensible precaution everywhere. A rigid sealed container is the minimum.

17 likes in reply to #3 16mo
CS
c.serranoTL220 Mar 2025#7

Saving this. It is the version I will quote when the question comes round again.

7 likes 16mo
TN
t.nardoneTL3Regular25 Mar 2025#8

Fixed versus detachable needles: insulin syringes usually have fixed needles (no dead volume loss to the hub). Luer-lock syringes use detachable needles (more dead volume). Fixed needles are preferred for small doses.

That is what the documentation says. What happens in practice is usually close.

1 like 16mo
MI
m.ilungaTL230 Mar 2025#9

The quoted dead-volume figures for common configurations vary between manufacturers and the ordering is stable: fixed needle least, luer with hub more, luer with filter needle most.

That much is documented. The rest is how I have interpreted it.

1 like 16mo
DS
d.szymanskiTL3Wiki editor4 Apr 2025#10

Post #8 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Needle gauge: smaller numbers (30G) are finer and less painful. Larger numbers (25G) are courser. For subcutaneous injection, 27-30G is typical. Finer needles take longer to draw up but hurt less.

Where I would look next, rather than where I would stop.

0 likes 16mo
MD
m.dalgaardTL3Regular8 Apr 2025#11
a.lindqvist, post #3: Needle length for subcutaneous delivery is a question about tissue depth and injection angle together. Short needles at ninety degrees and longer ones at an angle reach comparable depths. A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations. Go to post

Gauge is the outside diameter and higher numbers are thinner. Thinner needles hurt less and draw more slowly, which is the entire trade.

2 likes in reply to #3 16mo
FR
f.rasmussenTL213 Apr 2025#12
BBramley, post #6: Sharps containers are a legal requirement for disposal in several jurisdictions and a sensible precaution everywhere. A rigid sealed container is the minimum. Go to post

Everything in post #10 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Needle length: typical lengths for subcutaneous injection are 4-6 mm (short), 8 mm (standard), or 10-12 mm (longer). Longer needles are needed for deeper tissue or if you have abdominal adiposity.

8 likes in reply to #6 15mo
NG
np_gilmoreTL3Nurse practitioner17 Apr 2025#13

Building on post #12 rather than restating it.

An update on my earlier Filter needles post: the pattern held for another six weeks and then stopped, which I did not predict and cannot explain.

19 likes 15mo
MV
m.vukovicTL221 Apr 2025 · edited#14

Distinguishing three things in the Filter needles discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both.

0 likes 15mo
PP
peak_purityTL3Analytical chemist26 Apr 2025#15

This is the sort of exchange that makes the archive worth searching.

0 likes 15mo
JE
j.erdoganTL230 Apr 2025#16
m.vukovic, post #14: Distinguishing three things in the Filter needles discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both. Go to post

Answering the question post #14 raises rather than the one it answers.

U-100 means the barrel is graduated for a solution containing one hundred units of insulin per millilitre. For anything that is not insulin, the units are simply hundredths of a millilitre.

I would put this at better than even and not much better.

4 likes in reply to #14 15mo
OB
owen.bradyTL4 Moderator4 May 2025#17

An honest declaration on Filter needles: I have a prior here and it is strong enough that you should weight what I say downward. Stating it rather than hiding it.

13 likes 15mo
SD
s.dialloTL28 May 2025#18

Filter needles are for drawing from glass ampoules where particulate is a real risk. For a stoppered vial they add dead volume in exchange for very little.

The general answer and the answer for your case may diverge here.

27 likes 15mo
MP
mira.patelTL4 Admin12 May 2025#19

The most useful thing anyone has posted about Filter needles in this category was a table of what had been measured and by whom. That is what I would want again.

0 likes 15mo
MO
m.onwukaTL216 May 2025#20
JH
j.hartmannTL220 May 2025#21

Coring the stopper is a real phenomenon with repeated entries at the same point and blunt needles. Varying the entry point slightly and using a fresh needle prevents it.

The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one.

0 likes 14mo
P
PSkarbekTL3Regular24 May 2025#22

Fixed versus detachable needles: insulin syringes usually have fixed needles (no dead volume loss to the hub). Luer-lock syringes use detachable needles (more dead volume). Fixed needles are preferred for small doses.

Worth reading the earlier posts in this thread before acting on mine.

17 likes 14mo
BR
b.restrepoTL228 May 2025#23
j.hartmann, post #21: Coring the stopper is a real phenomenon with repeated entries at the same point and blunt needles. Varying the entry point slightly and using a fresh needle prevents it. The confident version of this sentence would be wrong, so here is the hedged one. Go to post

Coming back to post #19, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Answering the Filter needles question as asked, then the question I think is meant. As asked: yes, with the qualification below. As meant: it depends on how the first measurement was taken.

4 likes in reply to #21 14mo
BM
buffer_marginTL3Regular31 May 2025#24

On Filter needles: the maintained page in the documentation commons covers the general case with citations and a review date, which is more reliable than any reply here including this one.

0 likes 14mo
JB
j.baptistaTL24 Jun 2025#25

Sharps containers are a legal requirement for disposal in several jurisdictions and a sensible precaution everywhere. A rigid sealed container is the minimum.

The mechanism is plausible, which is not the same as established.

0 likes 14mo
CD
c.dahlbergTL28 Jun 2025#26

This follows post #23 rather than contradicting it.

The quoted dead-volume figures for common configurations vary between manufacturers and the ordering is stable: fixed needle least, luer with hub more, luer with filter needle most.

I am not the right person to answer the follow-up to this.

24 likes 14mo
IC
i.coelhoTL211 Jun 2025#27
DP
d.petrescuTL215 Jun 2025#28
PSkarbek, post #22: Fixed versus detachable needles: insulin syringes usually have fixed needles (no dead volume loss to the hub). Luer-lock syringes use detachable needles (more dead volume). Fixed needles are preferred for small doses. Worth reading the earlier posts in this thread before acting on mine. Go to post

Fair, and the limits you put on it are the part I will remember.

1 like in reply to #22 13mo
PO
pe.onwukaTL219 Jun 2025#29

Post #26 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Agreed on Filter needles, with one qualification that I think matters. The reasoning holds for the case as described. Change the starting assumption and it does not, and the starting assumption is the part nobody states.

0 likes 13mo
AR
ambient_reviewTL3Regular22 Jun 2025 · edited#30

Taking post #29 at face value and following it one step further.

If someone has run Filter needles properly I would rather read that than my own reconstruction of it. Posting mine only because the thread has gone quiet.

32 likes 13mo