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Analytics · HPLC & UHPLC

Carryover and the ghost peak from last week's standard — what changed since

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Solved by z.yildiz in post #3
My experience of Carryover contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.

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FD
f.danquahTL21 Jun 2026#1

Carryover and the ghost peak from last week's standard — what changed since Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did.

What changes if the standard account of Carryover is wrong? I ask because I have been treating it as settled and I noticed this week that I could not say why.

Working through the consequences rather than the evidence, since others here are better placed on the evidence.

16 likes 2mo
LT
l.trevinoTL22 Jun 2026 · edited#2

Before anything else: what was the gradient, and at what wavelength? Area percent at different wavelengths is not the same number even on the same sample because different species absorb differently at different wavelengths. With the method stated, I can tell you something useful. Without it, all I can say is that there is one large peak.

Adding a source would improve this post and I do not have one to hand.

2 likes 2mo
ZY
z.yildizTL2 Solution3 Jun 2026#3

My experience of Carryover contradicts the reply above. I am posting it as a data point rather than as a refutation, because one person's experience is exactly that.

7 likes 2mo
FW
f.wojcikTL23 Jun 2026#4
l.trevino, post #2: Before anything else: what was the gradient, and at what wavelength? Area percent at different wavelengths is not the same number even on the same sample because different species absorb differently at different wavelengths. With the method stated, I can tell you something useful. Without it, all I can say is that there is one large… Go to post

The arithmetic in the opening post is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Nobody has said the unglamorous part of Carryover yet, so: most of the variation is explained by things that are boring to write about and easy to check.

20 likes in reply to #2 2mo
AA
a.aguirreTL24 Jun 2026#5

Saving this. It is the version I will quote when the question comes round again.

5 likes 2mo
VF
v.fontaineTL24 Jun 2026#6

Building on post #4 rather than restating it.

Detection wavelength: 214 nm detects the peptide bond and is relatively insensitive to composition. 280 nm detects aromatic residues and is strongly composition-dependent. Area percent at one wavelength is not area percent at the other.

It is a small point and it changes the answer, which is an awkward combination.

0 likes 2mo
NO
n.okwuosaTL25 Jun 2026#7

Peaks that do not elute do not appear in the area percentage. Aggregates and strongly retained species can be entirely invisible to a standard method, which is a ceiling on what any purity figure can claim.

Not disagreeing with anyone above, just adding the bit I keep having to look up.

28 likes 2mo
HS
hana.satoTL4 Moderator5 Jun 2026#8
f.wojcik, post #4: The arithmetic in the opening post is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check. Nobody has said the unglamorous part of Carryover yet, so: most of the variation is explained by things that are boring to write about and easy to check. Go to post

Carryover is well covered in the tag pages, and the older discussions are better than the recent ones because they were argued out properly. Worth twenty minutes before adding to this one.

14 likes in reply to #4 2mo
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BramleyTL2Member6 Jun 2026#9

Adding the boring version of Carryover, because the interesting version keeps getting posted and the boring one is usually right.

Check the ordinary explanations, in order, and stop when one of them accounts for what you are seeing. Most of the time the second one does.

2 likes 2mo
RC
r.chukwuTL26 Jun 2026#10

System suitability testing: injections run before and during the sample run to establish whether the instrument, column and method were performing when the sample was analysed. If suitability did not pass, the sample results from that run are uninterpretable.

0 likes 2mo
KF
k.fonsecaTL26 Jun 2026#11

Taking post #10 at face value and following it one step further.

Practical note on Carryover: write down what you expect before you look. The number of times I have found what I went looking for is higher than chance would allow.

0 likes 2mo
KV
k.vanheckeTL27 Jun 2026#12

Particle size and column dimensions determine what resolution is achievable at all. A 5 micrometre 250 millimetre column and a sub-2 micrometre 100 millimetre column are different instruments in practice.

4 likes 2mo
VB
v.baptistaTL27 Jun 2026#13
Bramley, post #9: Adding the boring version of Carryover, because the interesting version keeps getting posted and the boring one is usually right. Check the ordinary explanations, in order, and stop when one of them accounts for what you are seeing. Most of the time the second one does. Go to post

Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half.

17 likes in reply to #9 2mo
BN
bench_notesTL4 Moderator8 Jun 2026#14
v.baptista, post #13: Useful. I had the fact and not the reason, which turns out to be the important half. Go to post

I read post #12 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Typical suitability criteria are a replicate area relative standard deviation below about two per cent, a tailing factor inside a defined window, a resolution minimum against a specified peak, and a plate-count floor.

The right answer here may simply be that it has not been measured.

0 likes in reply to #13 2mo
SC
s.cabreraTL28 Jun 2026#15

Two things can be true about Carryover at once: the mechanism is plausible and the evidence for the size of the effect is thin. Most of the argument here is people defending the first against attacks on the second.

0 likes 2mo
PW
PharmNotes_WhitfieldTL4Pharmacist8 Jun 2026#16

Before the thread moves on from Carryover — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred.

1 like 2mo
SM
s.mbekiTL29 Jun 2026#17

Narrowing post #14, because the general version has more than one answer.

Method validation is the demonstration that a method can separate the compound from its degradation products and impurities reliably. A method that cannot resolve an impurity from the parent peak will not detect that impurity.

I would want the raw data before agreeing with my own summary of it.

12 likes 2mo
NA
n.abernathyTL3Analytical chemist9 Jun 2026#18
l.trevino, post #2: Before anything else: what was the gradient, and at what wavelength? Area percent at different wavelengths is not the same number even on the same sample because different species absorb differently at different wavelengths. With the method stated, I can tell you something useful. Without it, all I can say is that there is one large… Go to post

Everything in post #16 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Carryover from a previous injection shows up as a small peak at the same retention time in a blank. A method report that includes a blank injection is telling you the analyst checked.

Worth saying I have only my own numbers here, and n is small.

25 likes in reply to #2 2mo
K
KForsbergTL2Member9 Jun 2026#19

Two claims get bundled together under Carryover and they need separating. The descriptive one — this is what was observed — is usually well supported. The causal one — this is why — usually is not.

Almost every disagreement in threads like this one dissolves once you say which of the two you are making.

0 likes 2mo
KK
k.kimaniTL210 Jun 2026 · edited#20

Peak purity: a diode-array detector records a spectrum at every time point. If a peak contains two co-eluting species with different spectra, the spectrum changes across the peak. A passing peak-purity result says the spectrum is constant; it is weak evidence of homogeneity if the impurities have similar spectra.

Worth checking against a second source before it gets quoted onward.

0 likes 2mo
FV
first_vialTL1Member10 Jun 2026#21
PharmNotes_Whitfield, post #16: Before the thread moves on from Carryover — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred. Go to post

I read post #17 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Injection volume matters because column overload distorts peak shape, and an overloaded main peak can swallow a small neighbour. A certificate without injection volume is missing something load-bearing.

A single observation, in a thread that deserves better than single observations.

21 likes in reply to #16 2mo
II
i.ilungaTL211 Jun 2026#22

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about Carryover than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

9 likes 2mo
SG
s.grigorescuTL2Member11 Jun 2026#23

Retention time is only comparable within a laboratory on a given method. Quoting a retention time across two reports as evidence of identity is not a valid comparison.

2 likes 2mo
SR
sa.rasmussenTL211 Jun 2026#24

A relative retention time against a known peak travels much better than an absolute one, and almost nobody reports it.

Worth reading the earlier posts in this thread before acting on mine.

0 likes 2mo
FR
figure_reviewTL2Member12 Jun 2026#25
s.mbeki, post #17: Narrowing post #14, because the general version has more than one answer. Method validation is the demonstration that a method can separate the compound from its degradation products and impurities reliably. A method that cannot resolve an impurity from the parent peak will not detect that impurity. I would want the raw data before… Go to post

Coming back to post #21, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

The useful distinction on Carryover is between what was measured and what was inferred from it. Both end up in the same sentence and only one of them has error bars.

15 likes in reply to #17 2mo
SL
s.lindqvistTL212 Jun 2026#26

Post #25 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

What would change my mind on Carryover is a second dataset collected by someone with no stake in the first. Until then I hold it loosely and I would rather say so than pretend to more.

6 likes 2mo
N
NorringtonTL3Regular12 Jun 2026#27

Nothing to add, except that this is the answer I would give if asked.

1 like 2mo
GT
g.tammTL213 Jun 2026#28

Area percent is a proportion of absorbance, not a proportion of mass. Two species with different extinction coefficients at the detection wavelength contribute unequally to the total, and nothing on the certificate corrects for that.

0 likes 1mo
LM
lyophil_marginTL3Regular13 Jun 2026#29

I disagree with the framing of Carryover above, and I think it is a substantive disagreement rather than a terminological one. Setting out why, so it can be checked.

The reasoning depends on an assumption that is doing a lot of work and is never stated. If the assumption holds, the conclusion follows. I do not think it holds generally.

0 likes 1mo
EK
e.kuipersTL213 Jun 2026 · edited#30
r.chukwu, post #10: System suitability testing: injections run before and during the sample run to establish whether the instrument, column and method were performing when the sample was analysed. If suitability did not pass, the sample results from that run are uninterpretable. Go to post

Source for the Carryover figure, since it was asked for. It is in the discussion rather than the abstract, which is why the version circulating is stronger than the paper is.

Reading the surrounding paragraph is worth the two minutes. The authors are more careful than their summarisers.

20 likes in reply to #10 1mo