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Devices · Syringes & needles · continued

Fixed versus detachable needles: the trade-offs posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

FN
formulary_notesTL3Regular3 Dec 2024#31
journalclub_wren, post #9: U-100 means the barrel is graduated for a solution containing one hundred units of insulin per millilitre. For anything that is not insulin, the units are simply hundredths of a millilitre. I have changed my mind on this once already, so take it as current rather than settled. Go to post

Practical experience of fixed versus detachable needles, offered as one case with the conditions stated, not as a general finding. Conditions first, because they are what make it interpretable.

7 likes in reply to #9 20mo
CA
c.amankwahTL24 Dec 2024#32
PharmNotes_Whitfield, post #3: Sharps containers are a legal requirement for disposal in several jurisdictions and a sensible precaution everywhere. A rigid sealed container is the minimum. Go to post

Safety-engineered needles are worth using if you have children or anyone else in the house, and the retraction mechanism occupies dead volume that ordinary syringes do not.

1 like in reply to #3 20mo
SC
s.chowdhuryTL3Regular4 Dec 2024#33

Post #31 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

U-100 means the barrel is graduated for a solution containing one hundred units of insulin per millilitre. For anything that is not insulin, the units are simply hundredths of a millilitre.

33 likes 20mo
AI
an.ibarraTL25 Dec 2024#34

Agreed on all of that, and I have nothing to add to it.

17 likes 20mo
EF
endo_fellow_rkTL3Endocrinology fellow6 Dec 2024#35
k.vanhecke, post #7: What I would want before treating fixed versus detachable needles as settled: the method, the sample, and whether anyone tried to find the opposite result. Two of the three are usually missing. Go to post

An observation about fixed versus detachable needles that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

4 likes in reply to #7 20mo
YA
y.adebayoTL26 Dec 2024#36

My understanding of fixed versus detachable needles is a few years old and may have been superseded. If it has been, I would genuinely like to know rather than keep repeating it.

0 likes 20mo
TH
TL4_HalvorsenTL4Leader · Journal club7 Dec 2024#37

Filter needles are for drawing from glass ampoules where particulate is a real risk. For a stoppered vial they add dead volume in exchange for very little.

Anyone with a larger sample, please post it.

25 likes 20mo
RE
r.ekstromTL27 Dec 2024#38

The arithmetic in post #35 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Coring the stopper is a real phenomenon with repeated entries at the same point and blunt needles. Varying the entry point slightly and using a fresh needle prevents it.

12 likes 20mo
SG
s.grigorescuTL2Member8 Dec 2024#39
maintenance_mode, post #20: Coring the stopper is a real phenomenon with repeated entries at the same point and blunt needles. Varying the entry point slightly and using a fresh needle prevents it. Happy to be corrected if someone holds better data than mine. Go to post

Post #35 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Dead volume: residual liquid in the hub and needle after withdrawal. Typical residual is 0.01 to 0.02 mL for an insulin syringe with a fixed needle. Accounting for it matters if precision matters.

1 like in reply to #20 20mo
SR
sa.rasmussenTL29 Dec 2024#40

Building on post #39 rather than restating it.

The documentation on fixed versus detachable needles is better than this thread and I say that as someone who has posted in the thread.

0 likes 20mo
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ZieglerTL3Regular9 Dec 2024#41
me.eriksen, post #27: Narrowing post #26, because the general version has more than one answer. Distinguishing three things in the fixed versus detachable needles discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both. Go to post

Post #40 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Needle gauge: smaller numbers (30G) are finer and less painful. Larger numbers (25G) are courser. For subcutaneous injection, 27-30G is typical. Finer needles take longer to draw up but hurt less.

4 likes in reply to #27 20mo
BJ
b.jansenTL210 Dec 2024#42
TL4_Halvorsen, post #37: Filter needles are for drawing from glass ampoules where particulate is a real risk. For a stoppered vial they add dead volume in exchange for very little. Anyone with a larger sample, please post it. Go to post

Offering a way to settle fixed versus detachable needles rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision.

12 likes in reply to #37 20mo
BP
baseline_peakTL2Member10 Dec 2024#43

The arithmetic on fixed versus detachable needles is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it.

25 likes 20mo
BN
b.nwosuTL211 Dec 2024#44

Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating.

0 likes 20mo
MS
m.stephanopoulosTL3Regular11 Dec 2024#45

Confirming post #43 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Sharps containers are a legal requirement for disposal in several jurisdictions and a sensible precaution everywhere. A rigid sealed container is the minimum.

1 like 20mo
NN
n.norgaardTL212 Dec 2024#46
y.adebayo, post #36: My understanding of fixed versus detachable needles is a few years old and may have been superseded. If it has been, I would genuinely like to know rather than keep repeating it. Go to post

I had written a reply contradicting post #42 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

U-100 means the barrel is graduated for a solution containing one hundred units of insulin per millilitre. For anything that is not insulin, the units are simply hundredths of a millilitre.

7 likes in reply to #36 20mo
RG
r.girardTL213 Dec 2024 · edited#47

Fixed versus detachable needles came up in a thread eighteen months ago and was answered well. I cannot find it, which is itself the problem, so here is the reconstruction.

18 likes 19mo
CS
c.silvaTL213 Dec 2024#48

Fixed versus detachable needles: insulin syringes usually have fixed needles (no dead volume loss to the hub). Luer-lock syringes use detachable needles (more dead volume). Fixed needles are preferred for small doses.

I would call that likely rather than established.

0 likes 19mo
AZ
a.zamoraTL214 Dec 2024#49

Right, and stated more narrowly than I would have dared to state it.

11 likes 19mo
DT
d.tammTL214 Dec 2024#50
an.ibarra, post #34: Agreed on all of that, and I have nothing to add to it. Go to post

Everything in post #46 holds. The case it does not cover is the one I have.

Adding what did not work for me on fixed versus detachable needles, since the failures never get written up and they are half the useful information.

24 likes in reply to #34 19mo
CO
c.ostergaardTL215 Dec 2024#51

Fixed versus detachable needles is well covered in the tag pages, and the older discussions are better than the recent ones because they were argued out properly. Worth twenty minutes before adding to this one.

31 likes 19mo
HS
hana.satoTL4 Moderator15 Dec 2024#52

Narrowing post #50, because the general version has more than one answer.

Sharps containers are a legal requirement for disposal in several jurisdictions and a sensible precaution everywhere. A rigid sealed container is the minimum.

The step people skip is the one I have spelled out.

15 likes 19mo
FA
f.amankwahTL216 Dec 2024#53

Needle length for subcutaneous delivery is a question about tissue depth and injection angle together. Short needles at ninety degrees and longer ones at an angle reach comparable depths.

6 likes 19mo
EP
e.piresTL216 Dec 2024#54
r.girard, post #47: Fixed versus detachable needles came up in a thread eighteen months ago and was answered well. I cannot find it, which is itself the problem, so here is the reconstruction. Go to post

Saving this. It is the version I will quote when the question comes round again.

1 like in reply to #47 19mo
NV
n.villalobosTL217 Dec 2024#55
m.lindqvist, post #24: Answering the question post #20 raises rather than the one it answers. Fixed versus detachable needles: insulin syringes usually have fixed needles (no dead volume loss to the hub). Luer-lock syringes use detachable needles (more dead volume). Fixed needles are preferred for small doses. Go to post

Taking fixed versus detachable needles seriously for a moment rather than deflecting: the honest position is that the community has observations and no controlled comparison, and those two things support very different sentences.

23 likes in reply to #24 19mo
BI
blank_injectionTL2Analytical chemist17 Dec 2024#56

The reason fixed versus detachable needles keeps being re-asked is that the answer is conditional and people quote it without the condition. It is not that the answer is unknown.

10 likes 19mo
HB
h.bakkerTL218 Dec 2024 · edited#57

Where I part company with post #53, and it is a narrow parting.

U-100 means the barrel is graduated for a solution containing one hundred units of insulin per millilitre. For anything that is not insulin, the units are simply hundredths of a millilitre.

3 likes 19mo
MS
m.strand_rphTL3Pharmacist19 Dec 2024#58
b.nwosu, post #44: Agreed, and I will stop repeating the version of this I had been repeating. Go to post

Sharps disposal: needles and syringes should be disposed in a sharps container (a rigid, puncture-resistant container). Do not put them in regular trash. Many pharmacies accept filled sharps containers.

0 likes in reply to #44 19mo
RL
r.lundgrenTL219 Dec 2024#59

Right — I had this wrong and I am glad to have read it before it mattered.

0 likes 19mo
QZ
q.zhao_qaTL3Quality assurance20 Dec 2024#60

A detachable luer needle plus hub can retain enough volume to matter. Whether it matters to you depends on your dose, and the arithmetic is worth doing once.

29 likes 19mo