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Data & Tools · Calculators · continued

The mass-error checker and its intended scope posts 91–120

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

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s.oyelaranTL22 Jul 2024#91

The arithmetic in post #90 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Tools that run entirely in the browser send nothing anywhere, which matters more to some people here than others and is worth stating either way.

I would not lead a decision with this, but I would not ignore it either.

0 likes 2.1y
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OTeixeiraTL3Regular2 Jul 2024#92
f.novak, post #72: Worth separating two things that post #71 runs together. Dose equivalence calculator: compounds have different potencies. The calculator is provided with a caveat: "equivalence" is not precise and individual response varies. It is a rough starting point, not a dose prescription. Go to post

Answering the question post #88 raises rather than the one it answers.

A note on scope: what I am saying about mass-error checker applies to the case in the first post and I would not extend it further without checking.

3 likes in reply to #72 2.1y
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i.oseiTL23 Jul 2024#93

I would rather this thread reach "we do not know" about mass-error checker than reach a confident answer that nobody can support when asked.

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OkaforTL3Regular3 Jul 2024#94

Unit-conversion tools are only as good as the assumption they make about the syringe. Ask what barrel and what graduation interval it assumed before trusting the units figure.

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b.teixeiraTL23 Jul 2024 · edited#95
m.nwosu, post #43: I had read the opposite somewhere and cannot now find where, which tells me something. Go to post

What I would tell a new member reading about mass-error checker for the first time: the confident posts are not the reliable ones, and the reliable ones are longer.

1 like in reply to #43 2.1y
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endpoint_marginTL2Member4 Jul 2024#96
Leiterman, post #65: Worth separating two things that post #61 runs together. Significant figures in the output should not exceed what the inputs support. A concentration calculated from a nominal vial mass is not known to four decimal places. Go to post

Right — I had this wrong and I am glad to have read it before it mattered.

6 likes in reply to #65 2.1y
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n.zielinskiTL24 Jul 2024#97

Adding a null result on mass-error checker. I looked, carefully, and found nothing, and null results deserve posting precisely because they never are.

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MJayawardenaTL3Regular5 Jul 2024#98

Dose equivalence calculator: compounds have different potencies. The calculator is provided with a caveat: "equivalence" is not precise and individual response varies. It is a rough starting point, not a dose prescription.

0 likes 2.1y
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e.roosTL25 Jul 2024 · edited#99

Worth separating mass-error checker as a question about the compound from mass-error checker as a question about the documentation. They get answered by different people and only one of them is answerable here.

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s.grahameTL2Member5 Jul 2024#100

Small correction to my own earlier position on mass-error checker. I had the units the wrong way round, which changes the conclusion by an order of magnitude and therefore changes it entirely.

10 likes 2.1y
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erratum_fileTL3Regular6 Jul 2024#101

Significant figures in the output should not exceed what the inputs support. A concentration calculated from a nominal vial mass is not known to four decimal places.

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i.grimaldiTL26 Jul 2024#102

Nothing to add on the substance. Thank you for taking the question at face value.

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RidgewayTL3Regular7 Jul 2024#103

Confirming post #100 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Checked the mass-error checker claim against the primary source this morning. It survives, with a narrower scope than the version quoted here. Posting the narrower scope.

0 likes 2.1y
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z.adeyemiTL27 Jul 2024#104
Leiterman, post #65: Worth separating two things that post #61 runs together. Significant figures in the output should not exceed what the inputs support. A concentration calculated from a nominal vial mass is not known to four decimal places. Go to post

The honest answer on mass-error checker is that it depends, and the useful part is the list of what it depends on. Four items, in rough order of how much they matter.

Most people get the first two right and then argue about the fourth.

1 like in reply to #65 2.1y
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d.bramleyTL3Regular7 Jul 2024#105

The most common input error is entering the vial mass in the concentration field. It produces a plausible number, which is why it survives.

That is where I would start, not where I would stop.

15 likes 2.1y
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v.kjaerTL28 Jul 2024#106

Mass error checking: enter your observed mass and theoretical mass and check whether the difference in ppm is within reasonable bounds for your instrument. Useful sanity check on LC-MS results.

The part I am sure of is shorter than the part I have written.

29 likes 2.1y
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c.draganovTL1Member8 Jul 2024#107
t.ibarra, post #32: I had written a reply contradicting post #31 and deleted it. Here is what survived. Unit-conversion tools are only as good as the assumption they make about the syringe. Ask what barrel and what graduation interval it assumed before trusting the units figure. That is a description of practice, not a recommendation of it. Go to post

Post #104 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

A calculator that shows its working is worth ten that give an answer. The whole value is being able to see which step you disagree with.

0 likes in reply to #32 2.1y
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a.cabreraTL28 Jul 2024 · edited#108
a.amankwah, post #57: Dose equivalence calculator: compounds have different potencies. The calculator is provided with a caveat: "equivalence" is not precise and individual response varies. It is a rough starting point, not a dose prescription. Go to post

Coming back to post #106, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Reporting rather than recommending, on mass-error checker. What happened is above. Whether it should have is a different question and not one I am qualified to answer.

2 likes in reply to #57 2.1y
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electrolyte_notesTL2Regular9 Jul 2024 · edited#109

Reading rather than answering, but this is the post I would point somebody at.

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b.dumitruTL29 Jul 2024#110

The arithmetic on mass-error checker is the easy part and it is where the errors are, which is an uncomfortable combination. Show your working and someone will catch it.

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f.abrahamsenTL2Member10 Jul 2024#111

Post #110 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Precision and significant figures: the calculators do not round to match your input precision. If you input values to one decimal place, the output might have more. Use significant figures appropriate to your input precision.

5 likes 2y
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e.coelhoTL210 Jul 2024#112
r.marsden, post #56: Mass-error checker is a good example of a question where the honest answer is boring and the interesting answers are unsupported. I would go with boring. Go to post

Mass error checking: enter your observed mass and theoretical mass and check whether the difference in ppm is within reasonable bounds for your instrument. Useful sanity check on LC-MS results.

Same conclusion as the reply above, reached differently, which is mildly reassuring.

0 likes in reply to #56 2y
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g.haalandTL3Regular10 Jul 2024#113

The calculators maintained on this site are open-source and verifiable. They are intended to check arithmetic, not to replace medical judgement. Using them is optional and they are provided for convenience.

That is what I would do. It may not be what is correct.

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il.dumitruTL211 Jul 2024#114

The question underneath mass-error checker is usually "how would I tell?" rather than "what is true?", and that one has a method attached to it.

Write down what you would expect to see under each hypothesis before you collect anything. If they predict the same observation, collecting it will not help.

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OkaforTL3Regular11 Jul 2024#115

I would put moderate confidence on the mainstream reading of mass-error checker and no more. That is not scepticism for its own sake; it is where the sourcing actually stops.

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f.ibarraTL212 Jul 2024 · edited#116
k.okafor, post #70: Picking up post #69: that is the part I would want checked first. The failure mode on mass-error checker is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong. Go to post

Tools that run entirely in the browser send nothing anywhere, which matters more to some people here than others and is worth stating either way.

That has held every time I have looked, which is not the same as always.

2 likes in reply to #70 2y
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OTeixeiraTL3Regular12 Jul 2024#117
footnote_entry, post #33: Picking up post #32: that is the part I would want checked first. The parts-per-million mass-error calculation is simple enough to do mentally to one significant figure, which is a good habit because it catches an order-of-magnitude slip immediately. It is one reading of the data and not the only reasonable one. Go to post

This is the answer, and the reason it is the answer is the more useful part.

0 likes in reply to #33 2y
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d.nilsenTL212 Jul 2024#118

Post #116 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

On mass-error checker: the maintained page in the documentation commons covers the general case with citations and a review date, which is more reliable than any reply here including this one.

27 likes 2y
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MJayawardenaTL3Regular13 Jul 2024#119
PSundberg, post #61: Counterpoint on mass-error checker, offered without confidence: the same observation is consistent with a much duller explanation, and nobody has ruled the dull one out. Go to post

Answering the mass-error checker question as asked, then the question I think is meant. As asked: yes, with the qualification below. As meant: it depends on how the first measurement was taken.

1 like in reply to #61 2y
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n.zielinskiTL213 Jul 2024#120

Post #118 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

The parts-per-million mass-error calculation is simple enough to do mentally to one significant figure, which is a good habit because it catches an order-of-magnitude slip immediately.

That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct.

0 likes 2y