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Outcomes · Body composition

Two scans six weeks apart on different machines: a cautionary tale

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Solved by bias_variance in post #7
Two scans six months apart on one machine tell you something. Two scans six weeks apart on different machines tell you about the machines. Old habit: I write down the expected answer before I calculate it.

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MB
m.balogunTL213 Apr 2026#1

On the subject in the title: Two scans six weeks apart on different machines: a cautionary tale Working notes rather than a conclusion.

A question about measurement precision rather than about physiology.

Two readings, some weeks apart, on the same equipment, differing by an amount that feels meaningful and may not be. I do not know what this instrument's least significant change actually is.

How much difference does there have to be before it is a difference?

29 likes 3mo
HF
h.friskTL217 Apr 2026#2

Maintenance phase: tracking body composition during maintenance (weight stable) is different from tracking during active loss. Changes are smaller and precision becomes more important.

A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none.

31 likes 3mo
RM
r.mcalisterTL3Regular19 Apr 2026#3

Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first.

DXA (dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry): the standard for body composition in research. Precision is roughly ±1 kg for lean mass. Two scans six months apart on the same machine with the same technician give you useful information. Two scans six weeks apart on different machines tell you about the machines.

Posted with less confidence than the sentence structure implies.

0 likes 3mo
RN
r.nakamuraTL221 Apr 2026 · edited#4

The most useful protocol is the one you will actually repeat identically. An imperfect measurement repeated consistently beats a better one repeated carelessly.

The short version is the first sentence; the rest is why.

3 likes 3mo
FD
f.demirTL2Regular23 Apr 2026#5

Percentage body fat is a ratio, so it changes when either component changes. A rising percentage during weight loss is arithmetic before it is physiology.

10 likes 3mo
AI
a.iyerTL225 Apr 2026#6
h.frisk, post #2: Maintenance phase: tracking body composition during maintenance (weight stable) is different from tracking during active loss. Changes are smaller and precision becomes more important. A partial answer, offered because a partial answer beats none. Go to post

Coming back to post #4, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Photographs under fixed lighting and posture are a genuine record and are the hardest of these to standardise.

23 likes in reply to #2 3mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician Solution27 Apr 2026#7

Two scans six months apart on one machine tell you something. Two scans six weeks apart on different machines tell you about the machines.

Old habit: I write down the expected answer before I calculate it.

7 likes 3mo
MS
m.steinerTL229 Apr 2026#8

A single scan is a snapshot with error bars nobody prints. Two scans give you a difference with larger error bars.

I would put this at better than even and not much better.

1 like 3mo
IT
impurity_tableTL3Analytical chemist30 Apr 2026#9

Post #6 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Bone mineral density changes with substantial weight loss are measurable and slow, and are one of the better reasons to have a baseline scan.

29 likes 3mo
JM
j.moreauTL22 May 2026#10
impurity_table, post #9: Post #6 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Bone mineral density changes with substantial weight loss are measurable and slow, and are one of the better reasons to have a baseline scan. Go to post

Quietly grateful for the plain phrasing. Not every thread gets that.

0 likes in reply to #9 3mo
RL
r.lundgrenTL24 May 2026#11

Coming back to post #7, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

DXA on the same machine with the same technician has a least significant change for lean mass of roughly a kilogram, sometimes more. Below that, two scans are the same scan.

Anyone who has looked at this more carefully, please correct the record.

4 likes 3mo
QZ
q.zhao_qaTL3Quality assurance5 May 2026#12

I will take the caveat as seriously as the claim, which is the point of putting it there.

0 likes 3mo
YI
y.ibarraTL27 May 2026#13

Neither method is capable of detecting the month-to-month changes that people report detecting month to month.

That holds for the case as described. Change the assumptions and it may not.

27 likes 3mo
DM
d.moreauTL2Regular8 May 2026#14
r.lundgren, post #11: Coming back to post #7, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. DXA on the same machine with the same technician has a least significant change for lean mass of roughly a kilogram, sometimes more. Below that, two scans are the same scan. Anyone who has looked at this more carefully, please correct the record. Go to post

Photographs under fixed lighting and posture are a genuine record and are the hardest of these to standardise.

I would be interested in a counterexample if anyone has one.

13 likes in reply to #11 3mo
AP
a.pereiraTL210 May 2026#15

I read post #11 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Percentage body fat is a ratio, so it changes when either component changes. A rising percentage during weight loss is arithmetic before it is physiology.

8 likes 3mo
PE
ppm_errorTL3Analytical chemist11 May 2026#16

Post #15 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Absolute lean mass and lean mass as a proportion move differently and answer different questions. Report both or say which.

2 likes 3mo
SA
s.antonsenTL213 May 2026#17
a.pereira, post #15: I read post #11 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Percentage body fat is a ratio, so it changes when either component changes. A rising percentage during weight loss is arithmetic before it is physiology. Go to post

The most useful protocol is the one you will actually repeat identically. An imperfect measurement repeated consistently beats a better one repeated carelessly.

The honest answer is that it depends, and here is what it depends on.

0 likes in reply to #15 3mo
FP
forest_plotTL3Evidence synthesis14 May 2026#18
y.ibarra, post #13: Neither method is capable of detecting the month-to-month changes that people report detecting month to month. That holds for the case as described. Change the assumptions and it may not. Go to post

Bone mineral density changes with substantial weight loss are measurable and slow, and are one of the better reasons to have a baseline scan.

Take the reasoning and check the arithmetic; I do not always get it right.

19 likes in reply to #13 2mo
CO
c.ostergaardTL216 May 2026#19

Photographs under fixed lighting and posture are a genuine record and are the hardest of these to standardise.

If it helps: the failure mode here is usually boring rather than dramatic.

13 likes 2mo
HS
hana.satoTL4 Moderator17 May 2026#20

Narrowing post #19, because the general version has more than one answer.

Percentage body fat is a ratio, so it changes when either component changes. A rising percentage during weight loss is arithmetic before it is physiology.

4 likes 2mo
JM
j.moreauTL218 May 2026#21

Visceral fat: DXA does not distinguish visceral (organ-associated) fat from subcutaneous fat. That distinction might matter but requires different imaging to measure.

I am reporting what happened, not recommending it.

21 likes 2mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician20 May 2026#22

The most useful protocol is the one you will actually repeat identically. An imperfect measurement repeated consistently beats a better one repeated carelessly.

That is the version I use. It may not be the version that is correct.

0 likes 2mo
MS
m.steinerTL221 May 2026#23
j.moreau, post #21: Visceral fat: DXA does not distinguish visceral (organ-associated) fat from subcutaneous fat. That distinction might matter but requires different imaging to measure. I am reporting what happened, not recommending it. Go to post

Narrowing post #20, because the general version has more than one answer.

Neither method is capable of detecting the month-to-month changes that people report detecting month to month.

1 like in reply to #21 2mo
FD
f.demirTL2Regular22 May 2026#24

Percentage body fat is a ratio, so it changes when either component changes. A rising percentage during weight loss is arithmetic before it is physiology.

5 likes 2mo
NL
n.laurentTL224 May 2026 · edited#25

That is a fair summary of where the discussion has got to.

15 likes 2mo
CR
compounding_ruthTL4Pharmacist25 May 2026#26
hana.sato, post #20: Narrowing post #19, because the general version has more than one answer. Percentage body fat is a ratio, so it changes when either component changes. A rising percentage during weight loss is arithmetic before it is physiology. Go to post

Post #22 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Comparing a body composition result against a population reference is a different exercise from tracking your own change, and the second is what most people want.

That is one dataset and I would not build a rule on it.

30 likes in reply to #20 2mo
HD
h.delgadoTL226 May 2026#27

Photographs under fixed lighting and posture are a genuine record and are the hardest of these to standardise.

0 likes 2mo

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