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Sourcing · Red flags

Coming back to: Pricing far outside the range, in either direction

HI
h.iyerTL216 Jul 2024#1

Pricing far outside the range, in either direction Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did.

Pricing far outside the range — I have the observation and I do not trust my interpretation of it, so I am posting the observation and holding the interpretation back.

Numbers, method and the conditions under which they were collected are below. Interpret them however they warrant.

8 likes 2y
TV
t.vargaTL217 Jul 2024#2

The arithmetic in the opening post is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Two people in this thread mean different things by Pricing far outside the range and are disagreeing about the definition while believing they are disagreeing about the facts. Worth pausing to define it.

0 likes 2y
CE
crossover_entryTL3Regular18 Jul 2024#3

Practical answer on Pricing far outside the range, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not.

26 likes 2y
LV
l.vermeulenTL219 Jul 2024#4

Appreciated. The plain phrasing does more work here than a longer post would.

13 likes 2y
EK
e.kjeldsenTL2Member20 Jul 2024#5
l.vermeulen, post #4: Appreciated. The plain phrasing does more work here than a longer post would. Go to post

Inconsistency across documents: a certificate stating one purity, a website claiming another, and a supplier's verbal representation claiming a third, all on the same product, is a red flag for either incompetence or deception.

2 likes in reply to #4 2y
PL
p.lindqvistTL221 Jul 2024#6
l.vermeulen, post #4: Appreciated. The plain phrasing does more work here than a longer post would. Go to post

The strongest single signal available cheaply is what happens when you ask a technical question. A quantitative answer inside a working day is difficult to fake at scale.

That is a description of practice, not a recommendation of it.

0 likes in reply to #4 2y
OA
o.abrahamsenTL3Regular22 Jul 2024#7

Post #5 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction.

Pricing far outside the range is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers.

19 likes 2y
MN
m.nwosuTL223 Jul 2024#8

The failure mode on Pricing far outside the range is boring rather than dramatic. It is almost always the step everyone assumes was done correctly because it is too simple to get wrong.

8 likes 2y
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CSagredoTL3Regular23 Jul 2024#9

Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is.

12 likes 2y
HR
h.ramosTL224 Jul 2024#10
o.abrahamsen, post #7: Post #5 and I disagree about the size of the effect, not about the direction. Pricing far outside the range is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers. Go to post

Pressure to pay outside a normal channel is the practical warning that has nothing to do with chemistry and is the one people ask about least.

4 likes in reply to #7 2y
JL
j.lokkenTL225 Jul 2024#11

Where I would push back on the Pricing far outside the range consensus is the confidence, not the direction. The direction looks right. The confidence is borrowed.

0 likes 2y
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s.stavrianosTL2Member26 Jul 2024#12
crossover_entry, post #3: Practical answer on Pricing far outside the range, since the theoretical one is upthread: do the simplest check first, write down the result, and only then decide whether the complicated explanation is needed. It usually is not. Go to post

Nothing here should be read as an accusation against a named company, and the guidelines exist so that reports remain reports.

Reading it back, the second half matters more than the first.

4 likes in reply to #3 2y
GD
g.danquahTL226 Jul 2024 · edited#13
p.lindqvist, post #6: The strongest single signal available cheaply is what happens when you ask a technical question. A quantitative answer inside a working day is difficult to fake at scale. That is a description of practice, not a recommendation of it. Go to post

Post #10 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

An honest declaration on Pricing far outside the range: I have a prior here and it is strong enough that you should weight what I say downward. Stating it rather than hiding it.

19 likes in reply to #6 2y
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BuchholzTL2Member27 Jul 2024#14

Where I part company with post #12, and it is a narrow parting.

Pricing far outside the range is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

0 likes 2y
EK
ew.kuuselaTL228 Jul 2024#15

Prices well below the rest of the market are a fact rather than a finding. They are worth noting and they do not establish anything on their own.

I would hold that lightly until someone with a larger sample weighs in.

0 likes 2y
TW
t.waldenstrmTL2Member28 Jul 2024#16

Pricing far outside the range sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly.

2 likes 2y
TB
t.brandtTL229 Jul 2024#17
CSagredo, post #9: Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is. Go to post

Marking my place. If it changes for me I will come back and say so.

13 likes in reply to #9 2y
KB
k.bettencourtTL2Member30 Jul 2024#18

Testimonials without a lot, a date, a method or a service are not evidence and are not a red flag either. They are simply not evidence.

That is the practical version. The rigorous version is longer and says the same thing.

27 likes 2y
JS
j.solbergTL230 Jul 2024#19

This follows post #18 rather than contradicting it.

The strongest argument against my own position on Pricing far outside the range, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

4 likes 2y
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LundqvistTL2Member31 Jul 2024#20

Second this, and I would have said it less carefully.

12 likes 2y
KA
k.asanteTL231 Jul 2024#21

Reframing Pricing far outside the range slightly, because I think the disagreement is about the question rather than the answer. If the question is "does it happen", yes. If it is "how often", nobody here knows.

2 likes 2y
CO
c.okaforTL3Regular1 Aug 2024#22

The guidelines draw that line for a practical reason as much as a fair one: reports accumulate into something useful and allegations do not.

Noting that I have skin in this question and have tried to discount for it.

0 likes 2y
JF
j.falkTL22 Aug 2024#23

Pricing far outside the range has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet.

25 likes 2y
CC
crossref_checkTL3Wiki editor2 Aug 2024#24
CSagredo, post #9: Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is. Go to post

Post #21 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

Pricing patterns: unusually low prices for what are otherwise consistent with market rates might indicate lower quality, stolen goods, or a scam. Unusually high prices without justification raise different flags.

Happy to be the one who is wrong here if it settles the question.

12 likes in reply to #9 2y
IW
i.wojcikTL23 Aug 2024#25

Answering the question post #21 raises rather than the one it answers.

The claim about Pricing far outside the range upthread is stronger than its source supports. I have read the source. The source says "associated with" and the post says "causes".

0 likes 2y
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VPoulsenTL3Regular3 Aug 2024 · edited#26

Adding what did not work for me on Pricing far outside the range, since the failures never get written up and they are half the useful information.

0 likes 2y
BF
b.friskTL24 Aug 2024#27
g.danquah, post #13: Post #10 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition. An honest declaration on Pricing far outside the range: I have a prior here and it is strong enough that you should weight what I say downward. Stating it rather than hiding it. Go to post

Following, with nothing to contribute beyond having asked the same thing elsewhere.

18 likes in reply to #13 2y

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