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Clinical · Bloodwork

Revisiting: How to bring a laboratory report to an appointment usefully

SB
s.balogunTL229 Aug 2024#1

Revisiting: How to bring a laboratory report to an appointment usefully — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

Asking about bring a laboratory directly, because I have read four threads on it and each answered a slightly different question.

The version I want answered is the narrow one: given the method stated below, is the result within what anyone else has seen? I am not asking what it means yet.

Method, numbers and the two assumptions I am aware of making are below. If the assumptions are wrong that is more useful to me than agreement.

41 likes 23mo
VT
vial_tableTL2Member30 Aug 2024#2

Bring a laboratory has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet.

10 likes 23mo
SS
s.salgadoTL231 Aug 2024#3
s.balogun, post #1: Revisiting: How to bring a laboratory report to an appointment usefully — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Asking about bring a laboratory directly, because I have read four threads on it and each answered a slightly different question. The version I want answered is the narrow one: given the method… Go to post

On the opening post — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Time of day: some biomarkers vary across the day. Cortisol in the morning differs from cortisol in the evening. Comparing results from different times of day is comparing things that are not the same.

3 likes in reply to #1 23mo
IL
integrator_logTL3Regular1 Sep 2024#4
s.salgado, post #3: On the opening post — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Time of day: some biomarkers vary across the day. Cortisol in the morning differs from cortisol in the evening. Comparing results from different times of day is comparing things that are not the same. Go to post

Picking up post #3: that is the part I would want checked first.

Reframing bring a laboratory slightly, because I think the disagreement is about the question rather than the answer. If the question is "does it happen", yes. If it is "how often", nobody here knows.

0 likes in reply to #3 23mo
LC
l.cabreraTL21 Sep 2024#5

Bring a laboratory: I would want to see the raw numbers rather than the summary before agreeing. Summaries lose exactly the information that would settle this.

16 likes 23mo
SF
sterile_fileTL3Regular2 Sep 2024#6

I came in to disagree and I am leaving without a disagreement.

6 likes 23mo
CM
c.marchettiTL23 Sep 2024#7

Where a result is flagged by the laboratory, the flag is against their interval rather than against clinical significance. Those are different thresholds.

1 like 23mo
D
DOdendaalTL3Regular3 Sep 2024#8
c.marchetti, post #7: Where a result is flagged by the laboratory, the flag is against their interval rather than against clinical significance. Those are different thresholds. Go to post

This follows post #7 rather than contradicting it.

The claim about bring a laboratory upthread is stronger than its source supports. I have read the source. The source says "associated with" and the post says "causes".

0 likes in reply to #7 23mo
IW
i.wojcikTL24 Sep 2024#9

Post #7 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

I would be cautious about generalising from the bring a laboratory example above. It is a good example. It is one example.

0 likes 23mo
V
VPoulsenTL3Regular5 Sep 2024#10
vial_table, post #2: Bring a laboratory has a well-known answer and a correct answer, and the interesting work is establishing that they are the same. Nobody has done that here yet. Go to post

Building on post #7 rather than restating it.

A trend needs at least three points to be a trend. Two points are a line and a line through noise is still a line.

Adding this to the thread rather than to the wiki, because I am not confident enough for the wiki.

21 likes in reply to #2 23mo
NK
ni.kravchenkoTL25 Sep 2024#11

That is clearer than the version I had in my head. Thank you.

16 likes 23mo
R
RodriguesTL3Regular6 Sep 2024#12

Where I part company with post #10, and it is a narrow parting.

A request rather than an answer: could whoever has the primary source for bring a laboratory post it? I have seen the claim three times this month and each version had lost a qualifier.

32 likes 23mo
HB
h.brandtTL26 Sep 2024#13
DOdendaal, post #8: This follows post #7 rather than contradicting it. The claim about bring a laboratory upthread is stronger than its source supports. I have read the source. The source says "associated with" and the post says "causes". Go to post

Adding the measurement that post #12 says would settle it.

What would change my mind on bring a laboratory is a second dataset collected by someone with no stake in the first. Until then I hold it loosely and I would rather say so than pretend to more.

0 likes in reply to #8 23mo
IS
isotonic_sheetTL3Regular7 Sep 2024#14

Repeat before acting is standard practice for an isolated abnormal result on most analytes, and it is standard for a reason.

Adding a source would improve this post and I do not have one to hand.

3 likes 23mo
KP
k.pereiraTL27 Sep 2024 · edited#15

Confirming post #12 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

Two claims get bundled together under bring a laboratory and they need separating. The descriptive one — this is what was observed — is usually well supported. The causal one — this is why — usually is not.

Almost every disagreement in threads like this one dissolves once you say which of the two you are making.

11 likes 23mo
RV
r.venkatesanTL38 Sep 2024#16
AP
au.pereiraTL28 Sep 2024#17
Rodrigues, post #12: Where I part company with post #10, and it is a narrow parting. A request rather than an answer: could whoever has the primary source for bring a laboratory post it? I have seen the claim three times this month and each version had lost a qualifier. Go to post

The second most useful thing it does is say clearly when the answer is to book the appointment.

That is a description of practice, not a recommendation of it.

0 likes in reply to #12 23mo
MM
maintenance_modeTL3Regular9 Sep 2024#18

On bring a laboratory, the part that usually goes wrong is that the question is asked as though it has one answer. It has a range, and the width of the range is the interesting bit.

If you can post the two or three numbers you are working from, several people here will check the arithmetic rather than argue about the conclusion.

1 like 23mo
SK
s.kuuselaTL29 Sep 2024#19

Two things can be true about bring a laboratory at once: the mechanism is plausible and the evidence for the size of the effect is thin. Most of the argument here is people defending the first against attacks on the second.

7 likes 23mo
TY
two_year_lineTL3Regular10 Sep 2024 · edited#20

Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is.

17 likes 23mo
MI
m.ibarraTL210 Sep 2024#21

Glycaemic markers integrate over different periods. A point glucose and a longer-term marker disagreeing is not a contradiction; it is two different questions.

That is the practical version. The rigorous version is longer and says the same thing.

0 likes 23mo
SL
s.leclercTL4 Moderator11 Sep 2024#22
two_year_line, post #20: Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is. Go to post

Genuine question rather than a rhetorical one: has anyone here actually observed bring a laboratory, as opposed to read about it? The thread is long and I cannot tell.

20 likes in reply to #20 23mo
MB
m.brobergTL211 Sep 2024#23
CB
c.bakkerTL212 Sep 2024#24

I have no financial interest in anything named in this thread and I want to say so before I comment on bring a laboratory, because it is the sort of subject where it matters.

0 likes 23mo
RE
r.ekstromTL212 Sep 2024 · edited#25

The most useful thing this subcategory does is help people tell an interesting result from an uninteresting one before booking an appointment about it.

Adding it in case it saves somebody the afternoon it cost me.

0 likes 23mo
EF
endo_fellow_rkTL3Endocrinology fellow13 Sep 2024#26
s.balogun, post #1: Revisiting: How to bring a laboratory report to an appointment usefully — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Asking about bring a laboratory directly, because I have read four threads on it and each answered a slightly different question. The version I want answered is the narrow one: given the method… Go to post

Narrowing post #24, because the general version has more than one answer.

I would call the community position on bring a laboratory likely rather than established, and I would be comfortable defending that hedge.

28 likes in reply to #1 22mo
TD
t.dumitruTL213 Sep 2024#27
s.leclerc, post #22: Genuine question rather than a rhetorical one: has anyone here actually observed bring a laboratory, as opposed to read about it? The thread is long and I cannot tell. Go to post

Bring a laboratory is a question about a distribution, not about a value, and treating it as a value is what produces the confident wrong answers.

9 likes in reply to #22 22mo
C
chromatogramTL4Analytical chemist14 Sep 2024#28

A trend needs at least three points to be a trend. Two points are a line and a line through noise is still a line.

I would not lead a decision with this, but I would not ignore it either.

2 likes 22mo
TN
t.ndiayeTL214 Sep 2024#29

Answering the question post #27 raises rather than the one it answers.

The most useful reply I ever got about bring a laboratory was a request to state my units. It sounds like pedantry and it has saved me twice.

0 likes 22mo
TD
t.demirTL215 Sep 2024#30

The arithmetic in post #27 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Sample handling before analysis affects several analytes, and a haemolysed sample produces predictable artefacts that a laboratory will usually comment on.

0 likes 22mo