The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Clinical · Bloodwork · continued

Revisiting: How to bring a laboratory report to an appointment usefully posts 91–120

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

KK
k.karlsenTL28 Oct 2024 · edited#91

Fair, and the limits you put on it are the part I will remember.

0 likes 22mo
HN
h.nicolaidesTL3Regular8 Oct 2024#92

Sample handling before analysis affects several analytes, and a haemolysed sample produces predictable artefacts that a laboratory will usually comment on.

Posting it because the silence on this was starting to look like agreement.

2 likes 22mo
ID
i.dumitruTL29 Oct 2024#93
v.bhattacharya, post #81: My understanding of bring a laboratory is a few years old and may have been superseded. If it has been, I would genuinely like to know rather than keep repeating it. Go to post

The confident answers on bring a laboratory and the well-sourced answers are not the same answers, which is the most useful thing I have learned reading this category.

8 likes in reply to #81 22mo
EL
endpoint_lineTL3Regular9 Oct 2024#94
i.wojcik, post #9: Post #7 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. I would be cautious about generalising from the bring a laboratory example above. It is a good example. It is one example. Go to post

Post #90 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it.

Time of day: some biomarkers vary across the day. Cortisol in the morning differs from cortisol in the evening. Comparing results from different times of day is comparing things that are not the same.

19 likes in reply to #9 22mo
SD
s.demirTL29 Oct 2024#95

Before the thread moves on from bring a laboratory — what is the sample size behind the claim? I am not being difficult; I have seen the same figure quoted from an n of four and from an n of four hundred.

0 likes 22mo
OP
o.pasqualeTL1Member10 Oct 2024#96

Adding the boring version of bring a laboratory, because the interesting version keeps getting posted and the boring one is usually right.

Check the ordinary explanations, in order, and stop when one of them accounts for what you are seeing. Most of the time the second one does.

0 likes 22mo
MN
ma.nascimentoTL210 Oct 2024#97
endpoint_line, post #94: Post #90 put the caveat in the right place and I want to underline it. Time of day: some biomarkers vary across the day. Cortisol in the morning differs from cortisol in the evening. Comparing results from different times of day is comparing things that are not the same. Go to post

Post #96 is the version of this I will quote in future. One addition.

A trend needs at least three points to be a trend. Two points are a line and a line through noise is still a line.

5 likes in reply to #94 22mo
LP
l.parkinsonTL2Member10 Oct 2024#98
two_year_line, post #20: Helpful, and easy to find again, which is half of what a good reply is. Go to post

Where I part company with post #94, and it is a narrow parting.

Where I have landed on bring a laboratory, having got it wrong once in public: the direction is clear, the magnitude is not, and anyone quoting a precise magnitude has borrowed it from somewhere that did not measure it.

13 likes in reply to #20 22mo
BJ
b.jansenTL211 Oct 2024#99

Bring a laboratory is one of those subjects where the general answer and the answer for a specific case diverge, and the thread will go in circles until someone says which one is being asked for.

1 like 22mo
BP
baseline_peakTL2Member11 Oct 2024#100

Post #98 describes the usual case. This is about the unusual one.

Time of day: some biomarkers vary across the day. Cortisol in the morning differs from cortisol in the evening. Comparing results from different times of day is comparing things that are not the same.

8 likes 22mo
K
KLindqvistTL4 Moderator12 Oct 2024#101

The arithmetic in post #98 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Repeat before acting is standard practice for an isolated abnormal result on most analytes, and it is standard for a reason.

0 likes 22mo
KL
k.laurentTL212 Oct 2024#102
np_gilmore, post #45: What I would tell a new member reading about bring a laboratory for the first time: the confident posts are not the reliable ones, and the reliable ones are longer. Go to post

Answering the question post #100 raises rather than the one it answers.

On bring a laboratory, I would rather understate and be corrected upward than overstate and be quoted. That is a house style here and it is a good one.

4 likes in reply to #45 22mo
NL
n.lehtinenTL212 Oct 2024#103

Sample handling before analysis affects several analytes, and a haemolysed sample produces predictable artefacts that a laboratory will usually comment on.

I would put a moderate confidence on that and no more.

18 likes 22mo
AI
a.ibarraTL213 Oct 2024#104

Whatever the answer on bring a laboratory turns out to be, the method for getting there is the same: state the assumption, do the arithmetic in public, invite the correction.

0 likes 21mo
VS
v.szaboTL3Analytical chemist13 Oct 2024#105
sa.okonkwo, post #34: I read post #32 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. A definition problem is doing most of the work in this bring a laboratory discussion. Once the term is pinned down I suspect the disagreement mostly goes away and what is left is small. Go to post

Adding the measurement that post #102 says would settle it.

The version of bring a laboratory that I was taught turned out to be a teaching simplification. Useful, and not true in the way I had assumed it was.

0 likes in reply to #34 21mo
NO
n.oseiTL213 Oct 2024#106
m.rasmussen, post #58: I read post #54 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. The most useful thing this subcategory does is help people tell an interesting result from an uninteresting one before booking an appointment about it. A guess, clearly labelled as one. Go to post

The second most useful thing it does is say clearly when the answer is to book the appointment.

That is all I can say without guessing.

2 likes in reply to #58 21mo
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist14 Oct 2024#107

That is a fair summary of where the discussion has got to.

13 likes 21mo
HV
h.vargaTL214 Oct 2024 · edited#108

I had written a reply contradicting post #104 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

Glycaemic markers integrate over different periods. A point glucose and a longer-term marker disagreeing is not a contradiction; it is two different questions.

26 likes 21mo
EK
e.kimaniTL214 Oct 2024#109

One caution on bring a laboratory: everything above assumes the underlying documentation is what it claims to be. That assumption is doing real work and is rarely stated.

0 likes 21mo
SS
s.silvaTL215 Oct 2024#110

I have been on both sides of the bring a laboratory argument in this category within eighteen months, which should tell you how strong the evidence for either side is.

0 likes 21mo
AP
asking_properlyTL1Member15 Oct 2024#111

Time of day: some biomarkers vary across the day. Cortisol in the morning differs from cortisol in the evening. Comparing results from different times of day is comparing things that are not the same.

0 likes 21mo
AN
a.nybergTL215 Oct 2024#112
o.pasquale, post #96: Adding the boring version of bring a laboratory, because the interesting version keeps getting posted and the boring one is usually right. Check the ordinary explanations, in order, and stop when one of them accounts for what you are seeing. Most of the time the second one does. Go to post

Bring a laboratory sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly.

25 likes in reply to #96 21mo
ST
sterile_tableTL3Regular16 Oct 2024#113

I had written a reply contradicting post #111 and deleted it. Here is what survived.

The strongest argument against my own position on bring a laboratory, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

7 likes 21mo
GB
g.bakkenTL216 Oct 2024#114

Confirming post #111 from a second method, which matters more than confirming it from a second person.

A trend needs at least three points to be a trend. Two points are a line and a line through noise is still a line.

1 like 21mo
SC
s.chowdhuryTL3Regular16 Oct 2024#115
m.broberg, post #23: Thank you — that answers what I came here to find out. Go to post

Bringing the actual numbers with intervals to an appointment is far more useful than describing them, and clinicians here consistently say so.

The general answer and the answer for your case may diverge here.

0 likes in reply to #23 21mo
MR
m.radichTL217 Oct 2024#116
QL
quiet_lurkerTL2Regular17 Oct 2024#117

Coming back to post #115, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Trying to state the bring a laboratory position in a way that someone who disagrees would recognise as fair, because I do not think the version in this thread passes that test.

12 likes 21mo
AA
a.adeyemiTL217 Oct 2024 · edited#118

Bring a laboratory is worth one more sentence than it usually gets, and the sentence is the one about how the number was arrived at.

4 likes 21mo
SC
sourced_claimsTL3Regular18 Oct 2024#119

Repeat before acting is standard practice for an isolated abnormal result on most analytes, and it is standard for a reason.

I have said this before in a thread nobody could find, so it is worth repeating.

26 likes 21mo
SG
s.grimaldiTL218 Oct 2024#120

The arithmetic in post #119 is right; the assumption feeding it is the part to check.

Where a result is flagged by the laboratory, the flag is against their interval rather than against clinical significance. Those are different thresholds.

The uncertainty is in the assumption, not in the calculation.

12 likes 21mo